Re: [OSList] An offering! (Nasty Banks!)

[Jorge Amigo]

Dear community.
It's interesting how the video has generated many comments and open a 
debate on banks.
We can not forget that the video is publicity, good publicity, very well 
done. Fulfills its purpose of seducing. Makes you want to go to the bank 
to ask for a loan (a joke). Nothing here is improvised. No open space. 
this is the truth.
I agree with Harrison, the general principle of taking the opportunities 
that present themselves, are small steps, to open spaces and create the 
conditions for a more healthy and effective living.
But do not be deluded.
One thing is the people who work in banks, and another thing is the 
owners of the banks.
One thing is that banks are necessary for the development of the 
economy, and another thing is that the people's economy is controlled by 
banks.
Banking has become a predatory lender. Examples of bank loan shark 
behavior abound in all countries.
I wonder then. How to open spaces for the development of an economy 
where the banking one's own contribution without usury?
How can we provide, as a community, the development of an enabling 
environment to prevent potential abuse and abused?
How can we open up spaces for politics and economics are made more from 
love than from the ambition and greed?
Is it appropriate to ask ourselves as a community in these issues?
A big hug
Jorge Amigo
El 29-01-2013 14:16, Brett Barndt escribió:
Harrison,

Great to see this topic on OSlist. Very very very important for
caring, concerned, and socially engaged people to educate ourselves
about this important and fundamental topic. In fact, there are
alternatives to this system and Sh* does not need to happen quite like
it does. The Sh* is a product of the system as it is designed. There
are alternatives, and it is high time we resurfaced those alternatives
in consciousness after a century of power institution efforts to erase
them.

There is some very good history by Farley Grubb of UDelaware on the
origins of bank power over our economy. It turns out a significant
number of the Founding Fathers were bank shareholders in the Bank of
the United States. Farley Grubb makes it pretty clear that the
Founders and the "Money Interests" got what they wanted by limiting
the ability of local communities and states to issue their own money
into circulation.

They made sure that the private banking industry would have control
over the money supply, to expand it when they want to, and then
contract when they need to for their own profit purposes.

This system is in stark contrast to the colonial period when
individual colonies issued currency into circulation for services
rendered to the colony. i.e. community.

Banks may be part of our economic life, but the way they create the
money supply through debts is an arbitrary form emanating from England
with the Bank of England. They used that system all over the empire
precisely because it draws the fruits of productive effort and human
transformative energy ever more toward a center of fewer and fewer
owners. The IMF then pushed it out to more places in the world after
"independence" and the replacement of the British Empire.

The system was also foisted upon European countries in the days of
"classical" or "liberal" economics. The system itself as designed
explains why wealth and income is so concentrated in these economies,
and why more and more are rendered property-less wage earners
perpetually in debt to the owners of the banks at the heart of the
economic system.

It turns out that the "open space" of the Constitutional Conventions
in Philadelphia in the 17980s were not so open since bank shareholders
were the preponderance of the attendees at the "open space". And,
evidently there were several similar "coup d'etats" against real
dialogue and all voices being heard over time at strategic moments
from then until now. The Shays and Whiskey Rebellions arose only a few
short years after this money monopoly was established as evidence
enough of its unjust outcomes.

We need to open that space again and revisit these constitutions and
all the law codes that privilege creditors, banks, and their
beneficial owners over everybody else who really are the ones creating
everything that's created underlying the economy. It is after all a
human economy.

We all need to learn more vocabulary about the choices available to us
for how money comes into existence. This is what now needs to happen
in Open Space. Conventional wisdom, lack of knowledge, propaganda, and
loss of agency have taken away our knowledge about the origins of
money, and the power dynamics inherent in those origins.

Like Grubb and other historians studying about money in these early
Constitutional Conventions like to say, "the average red neck farmer
in the Carolinas knew more about money and where it comes from than
the average Ivy League educated law student today."

And, I witnessed his questioning the audience about origin of money to
an audience of law students at Columbia University just last week!

We had better wake up from our slumber about these dark details. The
Spanish banks are not the only ones who have a lot to cover up with
feel good warm and fuzzy commercials. They have taken the nation to
the brink of disaster. 26% unemployment, and like in Greece, rising
suicide rates.

As a Canadian visitor asked a group of young activists in December in
NYC, "do you Americans know what has happened to your country? Do you
know what it is like to come by train from Toronto and cross the
border at Niagara Falls to see boarded up and abandoned houses? And, 8
hours of train past disused factories and towns all over New York
State? Do you know what happens when the wealth of a generation gets
wiped out?"

Of course they did not know what happens...maybe that would be wisdom
for European grandparents to contribute!

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net> wrote:
Eleder – As you may have noticed, we had a few problems with Banks here in
the USA. Some of it was due to outright incompetence, some to criminal greed
and  some more to simple mistakes (both honest and stupid). All told it
looked like another day in Human Land with the good, the bad, and the ugly
and a net result that Banks in general became #1 on the List of folks you
love to hate. Been there.



But all that said, Banks are an essential part of our economic life and we
certainly need to take them to task when they do some of the darker things
that they did. At the same time I believe we need to encourage them when
they take some positive, albeit faltering steps, for example the video. Most
of all, Banks (like all other human institutions) desperately need some
broader open space. Having had several (banks) as clients I can say that
these poor folks ( and I really mean that) spend their lives in suffocating
conditions filled with rules, regulations, pecking orders, petty power plays
– to the point that they are isolated from each other and most especially
from the world beyond. One effect of this is that when some part of their
system goes seriously off the track and displays truly sick behavior, that
pathology is amplified by the closeness, not unlike a bad abscess. Carrying
the analogy – the first step towards a cure is to let in some fresh air and
light (open the space). Given the space/time the conscience of their
colleagues has a chance to clean things up, and when the space is opened
even wider, the whole community can render the same function.



I don’t think this is rosy-eyed idealism… Fact is, Banks are just another
part of humanity, and sh… does happen. And when it does, some fresh air
helps. So it seems to me that anytime we have the opportunity to open some
space, we should seize that moment. Maybe the opening is just a little bit…
but you have to start somewhere.



Harrison



Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Dr.

Potomac, MD 20854

USA



189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)

Camden, Maine 04843



Phone 301-365-2093

(summer)  207-763-3261



www.openspaceworld.com

www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)

To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST
Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org



From: oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org
[mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Eleder_BuM
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:36 AM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Subject: Re: [OSList] An offering!



Harrison, my friend! I was curious on your opinion, thanks for sharing!

I try all my best not to be a sour puss, kill joy, Grinch,... :-)! You know
I really enjoy singing, dancing, laughing,...  but I have my own limits and
days, and I feel much better after expressing the shadows also.

Specially when (reading the previous messages) people seemed to ignore the
whole stuff (light and shadow), that was so apparent to me with this
commercial.

(Maybe I´m too sensitive with banks now. Last time suicides are on the
headlines -quite near Sabadell, the place of this bank and spot-, due to
people being taking out of the houses where they used to live, because they
are no more able to pay the loans they signed,... maybe just another
campaing?)


Sure "even banks can do it", of course there are nice people in banks,.. but
I still have a mix of feelings watching the commercial.

And, concerning the subject of this list, I still think that the piece in
Sabadell seems quite different from self organized and emergent,
spontaneus,...

Thanks to this great conversation I recalled another commercial video
related to banks in Spain. This one was recorded in Sevilla some 2 years
ago. It´s not Beethoven, It´s a plain "rumba", but the lyrics are a real fun
;-)!

And the stuff seems to me much more real. There is even some conflict,
confussion, chaos at the end,... One can sense there was not much money for
the artists,  but lots of humour and spirit... Enjoy yourselves :-)!

http://in-fluyendo.blogspot.com.es/2011/01/ole.html

May people working for banks have soon the opportunity to participate in
regular OST events as the one described by Lisa to handle their/our main
issues and opportunities!

This day we will probably have one less thing to do (commercials :-) and the
whole community will join in joy and musical, artful spirit,... let´s dream
:-)!

Love,

@Eleder_BuM
www.burumapak.blogspot.com
www.flowandshow.blogspot.com
www.bilbohiria.com/gaika/berbaz





2013/1/28 Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net>

Eleder – you old sour puss, kill joy, Grinch. Don’t you know that even Banks
can spread some joy? Actually any time anybody wants to do a commercial as
gorgeous as that one, I say bring it on! Sets a whole new standard that
needs to be repeated (IMHO – which thanks to Artur I now know what that
means). And since everything is open space (IMHO X 2), I guess even Banks
can do it. J



ho



Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Dr.

Potomac, MD 20854

USA



189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)

Camden, Maine 04843



Phone 301-365-2093

(summer)  207-763-3261



www.openspaceworld.com

www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)

To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST
Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org



From: oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org
[mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Eleder_BuM
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 6:10 AM


To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Subject: Re: [OSList] An offering!



Hi Anne and all friends around,



This music feels us with positivity, sure, and the stuff may resemble Open
Space,...

I´ll add, anyway, that..

it is a commercial for a bank (and this awakens not-so-uplifting emotions
inside me :-o) and
the concert seems quite different from self organized and emergent.
...

long life and much love from Bilbao, on this bright day after some rainy
weeks,

@Eleder_BuM
www.burumapak.blogspot.com
www.flowandshow.blogspot.com


_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org




_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org