Yes, and not every goal seeker is a control freak. Some of us are quite
the opposite.
Consider the man who loves a certain woman, and waits for the current
trend of her interest in him to change. He is goal seeking without
controlling.
Likewise, trend-following market traders do not attempt to create,
control or make trends. They simply identify & ride them, while seeking
wealth.
In both cases, there is goal-seeking without a controlling spirit.
Dan
On 10/21/13 5:46 PM, paul levy wrote:
Or maybe goal setting is just another gorgeous example of the mystery
of self-organisation ?
Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad...
Warm wishes
Paul Levy
On Monday, 21 October 2013, Harrison Owen wrote:
John I like what you say... and given the (only) two conclusions I
have managed to reach after all these years: A) All systems are
open. B) All systems are self organizing... the devil draws me to
a third conclusion. Goal seeking systems are purely a figment of
our imagination created in a desperate attempt to satisfy our
unending (and futile) need for control. You know the scenario. We
(I) created it, We (I) set the goals, We (I) control... Lovely
idea, but it never happened and never will. Of course, that is all
pure speculation and heresy.
Harrison
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I don't think self organizing systems are goal seeking systems.
By definition, goal seeking systems are homeostatic, and not
emergent or transformational. I think self organizing systems are
purpose seeking systems; hence, as Peggy says, always looking for
new meanings to emerge in a dialectic of emergence, but never
settling into any one final "eternal return," like "strange
attractors," always wobbling into new versions of themselves. I
think the question of game vs. not game might be solved by saying
emergent self organizing systems are systems at play, "lila" in
the tantric view, "the play of the goddess," indeterminate,
recursive, entangled, confounding traditional goal seeking or
linear causal or probabilistic behavior.
John
On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:43 AM, Peggy Holman wrote:
Great thread!
To Paul's question
what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing behavior?
Harrison referenced one of Kauffman's conditions for
self-organizing -- the search for fitness.
I believe that in human systems, the search for fitness looks like
a search for meaning.
Harrison said:
You don't have a self without a world, nor do you have a world
without selves. It is not one OR the other, but definitely a
both/and. Dialectic, polar, all at once. Nice I always thought.
Nice thing about a search for meaning. It can start as a solo
act. And you may pick up friends along the way. Sometimes that
evolves into a movement (Agile, Open Space, etc.). And sometimes
it even disappears into a world view.
Or not.
Peggy
Sent from my iPad
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On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:59 AM, "Harrison Owen" <hho...@verizon.net
<mailto:hho...@verizon.net>> wrote:
Dan said: : "what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing
behavior?" Good question indeed. Stuart Kaufmann (Biologist)
says that one of the conditions for self organization is what
he calls, "The search for fitness." I take this to be a
modification of Darwin's "Survival of the fittest." The idea
is that self organizing systems engage in a search for ways to
enhance the way they fit with the environment and fit together
internally. Those most fully aligned with the environment,
with all their parts engaged tend to survive. Works for me.
Harrison
Harrison Owen<
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