Dear colleagues, I am very grateful for all the sharing on pricing.
It helps me, as I am in the process of finding a pricing model that is in alignment with my values and the way I work. The way I process doesn’t fit with an internal time-punch machine. When I take on a contract, I can’t even distinguish how many days I am busy with it. It’s with me when I go swimming, in my mediation. I may have my best ideas while on a walk in the woods... Please keep it coming! Marai http://www.about.me/maraikiele > Am 13.08.2018 um 19:48 schrieb Michael Herman via OSList > <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>: > > In my experience, Robin, every situation is different. If there was such a > table, I suspect it would have MANY rates. Kind of like asking, "What is the > going rate for an artist?" Depends greatly on the artist, the asker, and > many things about the situation and duration of the work/impact desired. > Sometimes there is already a budget, so quoting prices doesn't matter and > it's more a question of what can be done within that limit. Other times, > there is an emphasis on the quality of the work such that any price is okay > as long as everything goes well. Sometimes it surprises clients that there > should be preparation time, it's not just a technical task we show up for the > day of the meeting/event. > > If there's any rule at all for me, it might be that the conversation needs to > focus first on what's happening, what's desired and expected, what's already > decided and where there might be uncertainty or complete unknowns. All of > these things in terms of the context, the leadership/sponsorhip, the > invitation, invitation list, logistics, documentation or otherwise keeping > things going, AND in terms of budget, previous experience with OS or other > facilitators. The tricky part, in my experience, is that the most important > work often happens in the earliest conversations, before anyone agrees to pay > anything. So it's a bit of line to walk, helping them see/understand the > value but not spending too much time/energy before there's a commitment. And > that line is different with every potential and situation. > > I once had a first meeting with a leader and her board chair. They decided > against doing the "event" we'd discussed, but she said she wanted to pay me > something, anyway. Turns out we'd opened enough space in our first > conversation that she'd gotten to raise the issues that mattered most and > gotten important "action" on them. So we agreed on a fee and I sent her an > invoice. What I take from this and some of the previous stories in this > thread is that we need to be quoting for their value not our time. I > estimate days, but I share more and less of that calculation as needed in any > situation. I try to keep the focus on what we need to do, toward achieving > what large and important purpose, with no guarantees or promises to control > the group, for what total fee. And sometimes the "daily rate" is quite high. > Then, having agreed to that fee, I spend whatever time I find is needed. So > any quoted rate may or may not end up being the actual rate earned. With > experience and with the learning we do in the first conversation(s), focused > on the work not the fee, we can do pretty well with the estimating. > > Speaking of invoices, I guess the one other "rule" I have is that once we > have that initial conversation and agree on some scope of engagement and fee > amount, with almost every client, that fee is billed in two parts. The first > half is billed and payable immediately, the second half plus expenses is > billed upon completion. Sometimes the plane ticket gets rolled into the > first invoice. This accomplishes a lot of useful things. One of which is > that it de-emphasizes contracting that often has a legalistic, us-them, > and/or guarantees flavor to it and emphasizes, instead, real action. When > they say, "Book a ticket and send the first invoice," we all know it's really > game on, going to happen. Another is that in the most complex, > energy-intensive situations, which tend to be the higher fees, when I show > up, only half my pay feels "at risk." It feels like my client and I go into > the unknown of the opening circle with more balance in the risk and > relationship. > > Geoff Bellman, in his book, "The Consultant's Calling," has a little bit on > this topic. The line I remember best and use from time to time is, "I'd like > to make/earn/bill $____ for this work." It's not about imposing a fee > structure. It's maybe not up to the consultant at all. But there is also > sense of "This is what I think this is worth" and "This is what I'd feel good > about trading for the energy I think this is going to take." Implicit in the > latter is some expectation of the energy that'll be required. And if that > quoted price is outside of what's expected, there are several lines to pursue > in the conversation that follows. Often, I propose a range, as well, which > gives me some wiggle room, because we never really know what we're walking > into. It's nice to make a little extra when the going gets rough in > preparations or the work proves especially valuable and it's nice to leave a > little on the table when things go easy or maybe unsettling things turn up at > the end. > > So maybe there are at least two questions inside of your question, Robin... > How much do you think clients will pay for our work (how/how much do they > value our work)? AND how much do you like to get paid for doing this kind of > work? And then, for what sorts of clients, issues, purposes, places, etc. > And then, what do we do when the two numbers are different? Or when your > value and mine are perceived as equal by a client out facilitator shopping, > but each us wants to get paid something different? > > Michael > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > http://MichaelHerman.com <http://michaelherman.com/> > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org <http://openspaceworld.org/> > > > > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights, LLC > via OSList <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote: > Hi. I’ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many > years in a corporate environment. Having a reference for going rates would > be helpful, to ensure I’m charging clients appropriately. I’ve scoured > OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can’t find anything on > rates. Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or elsewhere) > that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various regions of > the world/countries? Thanks. > > > > Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA > > ro...@facinsights.com <mailto:ro...@facinsights.com> | 770.371.5874 | > <image001.jpg> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/> > <image003.png> > > > > > > From: OSList <oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org>> On Behalf Of David Smith via > OSList > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM > To: 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' > <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> > Cc: imagi...@bigpond.net.au <mailto:imagi...@bigpond.net.au> > > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Hi Harrison and Rob, > > I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for an > environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and said > I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote was far > and away the lowest – would I consider doubling it to avoid embarrassing the > others... > > What can you say? > > David Smith > > > > > > Dr David Smith > BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA > Trading as imaginACTION > > 50 Sweyn Street > Balwyn North > Victoria 3104 > AUSTRALIA > > t +613 9857 8688 > m 0411 444 048 > da...@imaginaction.net.au <mailto:da...@imaginaction.net.au> > www.imaginaction.net.au <http://www.imaginaction.net.au/> > > iA > > imaginACTION > Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award > > for Historical Interpretation > > Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD > > > > Overall Winner, > Australian Achiever Awards > Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video > > > > > > > > From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org>] On Behalf Of R Chaffe via > OSList > Sent: 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Harrison, yes. > > > > On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%. My > comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed cost. The > underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that it made other > similar events look very expensive. Yet all that happened was that the > process gave voice to all present. > > > > Rob > > > On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList > <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> > wrote: > > Rob – you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with > clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It’s too simple. > Couldn’t possibly happen, and doesn’t cost enough. I had one (major) > corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he couldn’t > possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he asked and > always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy, and of course > the Open Space “worked” as usual. For obvious reasons all names are withheld > to protect the innocent and gullible J > > > > ho > > > > From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org>] On Behalf Of R Chaffe via > OSList > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: R Chaffe > Subject: Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in > organizations and networks after the initial intervention > > > > Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking when > there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open to > insights and differences etc. Yes we do it all the time! Therein lies an > issue for those looking for the “silver” bullet from “outside” as the promise > we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and opportunities > associated with a particular question we have little control on what might > come and we have faith in the community of concern will have the best ways of > dealing with their concern. Sometimes it is a “road to Damascus experience > and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be explored. This > raises another issue for those who think the one meeting will be all that is > required and blindly race into the future thinking that change is something > that others do. Opening the space is more a process than an event and seeing > / believing in this is one of the main stays of Open Space along with the > faith that within the community of concern we have the power to implement > insights and directions gained from empowering the community to “live”. > > Regards > > Rob > > > On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList > <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> > wrote: > > Thanks for your reflections Harrison! > > Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are: > > "The power to repair the world is already in you." > "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own > design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us > and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place > of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential > which is trying to actualize itself over time. … It is not about mastering > life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well > intentioned our will may be. … It means listening to life from the place in > us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is also > whole." > —Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings > > I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a > space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens > yourself. Just a thought. > > Thanks again, > /Jan Höglund, Sweden > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org> > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org > <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org> > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org > <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > <mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org> > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org > <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
_______________________________________________ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
