Chris,

draft-hegde-ospf-advertising-te-protocols has following limitations:

1. only solves the problem of RSVP and Segment Routing TE. It does not address any other non-TE applications - e.g. LFA, SPF based on the delay or bandwidth, or anything that may come in the future.

2. it took the approach of "indicating the protocols enabled on the link". While this may be good for RSVP, it does not work for other applications. For example the fact that the LFA is enabled on a remote link is orthogonal to the fact whether the SRLG value on such link is going to be used by LFA calculation on other nodes in a network.

3. does not support per application values. You questioned the use case of SRLG. Well, we have a real use case, where operator runs RSVP TE and SRTE in parallel and wants to know bandwidth available for each.

You mentioned problems with advertising same attribute in multiple places. Well, we already do this today with metric, we advertise IGP metric in Router LSA and TE metric in TE Opaque LSA. There is no problem here, because each application knows where to look. RSVP TE has its own container and any data in this container are clearly RSVP TE specific. Rest of the applications should never look at these. RFC7684 defines the container for generic link attributes and that is what we should use for any non-RSVP applications.

When original RSVP TE extensions for IGPs were done, nobody was thinking about other applications using these link attributes. Today we clearly have use cases and now we need to address the lack of support for other applications.

The authors of the draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse draft strongly believe that as we make the link attributes available for other applications, it is the right time to add the support for per application values, so we do not need to come back and address that problem again in the future. The proposed encoding in the draft avoids any replication if there is a single value of the attribute used by all/several applications, while allowing the per application values to be advertised if needed.

In summary, draft-hegde-ospf-advertising-te-protocols only address the subset of the problems that draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse is solving.

thanks,
Peter




On 01/11/16 17:04 , Chris Bowers wrote:
OSPF WG,

I do not support adoption of draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-03 as a WG 
document.

The draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has highlighted a real issue that 
needs to be addressed.
OSPF does not have a standardized mechanism to determine if RSVP is enable on a 
link.  Implementations
have instead relied on the presence of the TE Opaque LSA with a given Link TLV 
to infer
that RSVP is enabled on a link.  This presents a problem when one wants to use 
TE attributes carried
in the Link TLV of the TE Opaque LSA in an environment with both RSVP and 
non-RSVP applications.   There
is currently no standardized way for a TE attribute to be advertised on a link 
for use by a non-RSVP application
without causing existing implementations to infer that RSVP is enabled on the 
link.

The solution proposed by draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse is to allow the 
TE attributes originally
defined to be carried in the Link TLV of the TE Opaque LSA to be advertised in 
the Extended Link TLV of the
Extended Link Opaque LSA.  The current draft proposes allowing the 
advertisement of the following
attributes in either the Link TLV of TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link TLV of 
the Extended Link Opaque LSA.

Remote interface IP address
Link Local/Remote Identifiers
Shared Risk Link Group
Unidirectional Link Delay
Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay
Unidirectional Delay Variation
Unidirectional Link Loss
Unidirectional Residual Bandwidth
Unidirectional Available Bandwidth
Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth

There has already been a great deal of discussion on the OSPF list about the 
potential problems caused by
moving or replicating the advertisement of existing TE attributes in different 
containers.   It can create problems
for both implementers and network operators when the same attribute can be 
advertised in multiple places.
Implementers need to apply some logic to figure out where to advertise and 
where to find the value of the attribute
that should be used in a given set of circumstances.  Different implementers 
may apply subtly different logic.  Network
operators will have to test the different implementations against each other to 
make sure that the logic applied
produces the desired result in their network.  In many cases, they will also 
have to test these different new implementations
against existing software that only sends and receives TE attributes in the TE 
Opaque LSA.

A few months ago we published draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-protocols which 
addresses the same basic issue in ISIS.
The same approach also works for OSPF, so we recently published 
draft-hegde-ospf-advertising-te-protocols.
draft-hegde-ospf-advertising-te-protocols-00 proposes a straightforward 
solution to the problem described above.
It defines a new TE-protocol sub-TLV to be carried in the Link TLV of the TE 
Opaque LSA to indicate which
TE protocols are enabled on a link.  Currently it defines values for RSVP and 
SR.  The draft also provides clear backward
compatibility mechanisms for routers that have not yet been upgraded to 
software that understands this new sub-TLV.

The approach in draft-hegde-ospf-advertising-te-protocols-00 is 
straightforward.  It leaves the existing TE
attributes in the TE Opaque LSA, allowing implementations to continue to 
advertise and find traffic engineering
the information in the TE Opaque LSA.

The latest version of draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse (the -03 version) 
added an Application Bit Mask.  The idea
of the Application Bit Mask is to allow different values of TE attributes to be 
defined for different applications.
It is not clear to me that this part of the draft addresses an existing 
problem.  The text gives one example use
case involving having different sets of SRLGs for SR and for LFA.  If network 
operators do in fact have a need for
different sets of SRLGs, then we should figure out what is needed and propose a 
solution based on what is actually
needed.  This draft would also provide encodings to advertise different Link 
Delay and Link Loss values for a given link.
I can't think of a potential use case for that, since Link Delay and Link Loss 
are measured values.

Overall, this draft has been useful in highlighting the existing lack of a 
standardized mechanism to indicate
whether or not RSVP is enabled on a link.  However, I don't think that the 
solution it proposes is a good starting point
for the WG to address this issue.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: OSPF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Abhay Roy
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:28 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [OSPF] WG Adoption Poll for draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse

Dear WG,

Authors of draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse would like to poll the WG for 
adoption of this document as a WG Draft. Please send your opinions / concerns.

This begins the two week WG adoption poll which will conclude on Nov 9th 2016.

Authors, we need your explicit response on this thread to capture your answer 
on if you are aware of any IPR related to this draft.

Regards,
-Abhay

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