> On May 31, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Alia Atlas <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Acee,
> 
> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Alia, 
> Thank you for your comments. I certainly don’t agree with all of them but 
> will allow the authors to respond. For example, I believe the concept of an 
> SRMS to be well-undestood and defined in the SPRING WG. Perhaps we just need 
> the right references.
> 
> I found circular references about an SRMS in the SPRING WG documents but 
> nothing that was a clear definition.


draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop is the document where the srms is 
briefly introduced. I agree with you, more details are needed and then the 
sr-igp drafts (ospf,ospfv3,isis) should point to the ldp-interop draft.

I will submit a new version of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop 
not later than this week.

s.


>  I didn't read all the SPRING WG drafts, of course, but I did follow the 
> references from this document and from that on - back to the 
> isis-segment-routing-extensions draft. Obviously, on the one hand, it isn't 
> the job of the OSPF WG to define this - but it does need clear references so 
> the technology can be understood in context.
>  
> The one comment I will respond to is the one regarding the author limit. Note 
> that this is covered in the Shepherd’s Write-Up. I’ve excerpted it here:  
> 
>       The document does have seven authors. All the authors have 
>       played in active role in the development of the standard including
>       periodic segment routing design team meetings.  All of the authors
>       have responded promptly to IPR polls. At least three of the
>       authors represented independent implementations. There is 
>       absolutely no reason to relegate any of them to contributor status. 
> 
> Then the solution may be to have one or two be editors and on the front page. 
>  I am willing to discuss but
> I am getting quite tired of this consistent issue on almost every draft I 
> receive for publication.
>  
> I’ll be on vacation the remainder of this week but will touch base with the 
> authors on Monday. 
> 
> Have a good vacation!
> 
> Regards,
> Alia 
> 
>  
> Thanks,
> Acee 
> From: OSPF <[email protected]> on behalf of Alia Atlas <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:35 PM
> To: OSPF WG List <[email protected]>, 
> "[email protected]" 
> <[email protected]>, "Alvaro Retana 
> (aretana)" <[email protected]>, Deborah Brungard <[email protected]>
> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16
> 
> I forgot to point out that the Security Considerations sections is not close 
> to sufficient.
> At a minimum, it needs to refer to the existing security work for OSPF, 
> indicate what new
> information is being advertised, and discuss if there are any privacy or 
> security concerns
> around them.  I don't personally see any - except for, perhaps, the increased 
> ability to fingerprint
> the type and version of routers with these advertisements.
> 
> Regards,
> Alia
> 
> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Alia Atlas <[email protected]> wrote:
> As is customary, I have done my AD review of 
> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16 once publication has been 
> requested.  First, I would like to thank the editors & many authors, Peter, 
> Stefano, Clarence, Hannes, Rob, Wim & Jeff, for the work that they have put 
> in so far and the remaining work that is greatly needed.
> 
> While there are a great many issues to be handled, they fall primarily into 
> three categories.  The first is simply not going through and tightening up 
> the details; for example, stating that the length of a TLV is variable 
> provides no meaning.  The second is that the technical documents from SPRING 
> that this draft depends on do not adequately describe the use of the 
> advertised information (SID/Label Binding TLV) or some of the concepts (e.g. 
> SR Mapping Server).  The third is a more common set of handling error cases 
> and adding clarity to the intended behavior.  I do not see issues with the 
> encodings but I do see fragility with the unstated assumptions and behaviors. 
>  The draft describes encodings, but very little of the handling, behaviors, 
> or meaning - and the references do not provide adequate detail.
> 
> I have spent all day (and evening) doing this review and I am quite 
> disappointed and concerned about the document.  I would strongly recommend 
> having sharing the next WGLC with the SPRING working group; perhaps more eyes 
> will help with the discrepancies.
> 
> I have not yet decided what to do about the "early" IANA allocation - which 
> has now existed for this draft for 3 years.  I do know that there are 
> implementations,
> but I am currently seeing the failure of this work to successfully complete 
> as an example of an issue with providing early allocations.  
> 
> MAJOR ISSUES:
> 
> 1) This draft has 7 authors.  The limit for authors & editors is 5, as is 
> clearly stated in RFC 7322 Sec 4.1.1 and has been the case for well over a 
> decade, unless there are extraordinary circumstances.  Is there a reason to 
> not simply list the active editor and move the others to contributors?  One 
> of the authors is already listed there.  I regret that failure to deal 
> earlier with this long-standing IETF policy will be delaying progressing the 
> draft.
> 
> 2) This expired individual 
> draft(draft-minto-rsvp-lsp-egress-fast-protection-03) is listed as 
> Informative - but IS ACTUALLY NORMATIVE since it DEFINES the
> "M-bit - When the bit is set, the binding represents a mirroring context as 
> defined in [I-D.minto-rsvp-lsp-egress-fast-protection]."  Unfortunately, when 
> I look there for the definition of a mirroring context, it doesn't exists.
> 
> 3) The following Informative references expired several years ago and - being 
> individual drafts - do not appear to convey the SPRING or TEAS WG consensus. 
>    a)  draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-03 was replaced with 
> draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-07 and there are considerable 
> differences.
>    b) It is unclear what happened to 
> draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-use-cases-01, but I do not see any 
> successor - or reason for this individual draft to explain the OSPFv2 
> extensions more than work from the SPRING WG.
> 
> 4) Sec 3.3: Is it ok to advertise an SRLB TLV without advertising the 
> SR-Algorithm TLV?  What is the expected behavior and assumptions by the 
> receiver?
> 
> 5) Sec 3.4:  What happens if an SRMS Preference TLV is advertised without an 
> SR-Algorithm TLV in the same scope?  I see that it says "For the purpose of 
> the SRMS Preference Sub-TLV advertisement, AS scope flooding is required." 
> but also provides for area scope flooding.  Some words clarifying the 
> expected behavior would be useful.
> 
> 6) Sec 5: "In such case, MPLS EXP bits of the Prefix-SID are not preserved 
> for 
> the final destination (the Prefix-SID being removed)."   I am quite startled 
> to see an assumption that MPLS Pipe mode is being forced as part of 
> specifying PHP mode!  This will also break any ECN or 3-color marking that 
> has affected the MPLS EXP bits.  I would like to see and understand a clear 
> justification for why short-pipe mode is being required instead of Uniform 
> (or up to implementation/configuration.).   Basically, this sentence means 
> that transport considerations are a necessary section - which is completely 
> inappropriate in an IGP draft.
> 
> 7) Sec 6: This section defines the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV - which appears 
> to be a way to advertise an explicit path - and has a SID/Label by which the 
> path can be entered.   How and what state is set up by the sending router to 
> create the indicated segment is completely unclear.   I have hunted through 
> draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls, 
> and draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop, RFC7855, and 
> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions.   As far as I can tell, NONE of 
> them clearly describe the details of where and why this advertising is 
> needed.  Obviously, this mechanism does allow the potential shortening of the 
> MPLS label stack at the cost of advertising multi-hop explicit path segments 
> across the entire area or AS.  There MUST be a normative description of what 
> the sending router will do when a packet is received with the specified 
> label.  
> 
> 8) Sec 4: "The Segment Routing Mapping Server, which is described in 
> [I-D.filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop]"  Where precisely is an 
> SRMS and its behavior/role actually defined?  
> draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-07 claims:"SR to LDP 
> interworking requires a SRMS as defined in 
> [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions]." but that wouldn't be 
> appropriate, of course, and it isn't there either!  
> draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-04 talks about SRMS, but doesn't define 
> it.   draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11 mentions in Sec 3.5.1 that "A 
> Remote-Binding SID S advertised by the mapping server M" and refers to the 
> ldp-interop draft for further details - but obviously not about an SRMS.
> 
> Minor Issues:
> 
> 1) In Sec 3.1, it says: "The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional. It MUST only be 
> advertised once in the Router Information Opaque LSA.  If the SID/Label Range 
> TLV, as defined in Section 3.2, is advertised, then the SR-Algorithm TLV MUST
> also be advertised."  Please provide a pointer in the text to the behavior 
> for a receiving router if one or both of these are violated?   For the 
> requirement to advertise the SR-Algorithm TLV, please clarify that this is in 
> the same RI LSA as the SID/Label Range TLV was advertised & with the same 
> scope.  What does it mean, in terms of the receiving router, to determine 
> that the sending router supports SR or not - given the possibility of 
> receiving other SR-related TLVS in an RI LSA without getting an SR-Algorithm 
> TLV?
> 
> 2) Sec 3.1: The SR-Algorithm TLV simply defines "Length: Variable".  Given 
> that advertising Algorithm 0 is required, I'm fairly sure that the Length has 
> to be a minimum of 1 - and, to prevent overrun & weird issues, let's have a 
> reasonable maximum (for instance, 24) too.  It wouldn't hurt to remind 
> readers that the length is just that of the value field - though experienced 
> OSPF implementers will know that.
> 
> 3) Sec 3.1 & Sec 3.2 & Sec 3.3: "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV 
> advertisement, area scope flooding is required." and "For the purpose of 
> SID/Label Range TLV advertisement, area scope flooding is required."  and 
> "For the purpose of SR Local Block Sub-TLV TLV advertisement, area scope 
> flooding is required." Please capitalize REQUIRED as per RFC 2119.  
> Otherwise, please explain behavior when area scope isn't used.
> 
> 4) Sec 3.2:  The SID/Label Range TLV doesn't indicate that include a 
> SID/Label sub-TLV is required - but I don't understand how it could be 
> interpreted otherwise; nor does it indicate what to do if there are multiple 
> SID/Label sub-TLVs included in a single SID/Label Range TLV. Again "Length" 
> is just defined as variable.  In this case, it clearly can't be less than 11 
> (probably 12, assuming padding to the 32-bit boundary).   It would be useful 
> to have an upper-bound on length, but at least here I can see the argument 
> that meaningful flexibility is provided for.
> 
> 5) SID index is used without introduction in Sec 3.2.  It isn't defined in 
> the terminology of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11 and the other uses of 
> it in this document aren't enough to clearly define it.  Please add at least 
> a description of its meaning before use - in a terminology section, if 
> necessary.
> 
> 6) Sec 3.2: "The originating router advertises the following ranges:
>          Range 1: [100, 199]
>          Range 2: [1000, 1099]
>          Range 3: [500, 599]"
> Please turn this into the information actually advertised - i.e.
>    Range 1: Range Size: 100   SID/Label sub-TLV: 100  => meaning [100, 199]
> etc.   
> 
> 7) 3.2. SID/Label Range TLV:  Please specify that the sender MUST NOT 
> advertise overlapping ranges & how to handle the case when it does.  This is 
> required by draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution.
> 
> 8) Sec 3.3  SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV: The document doesn't specify that 
> the SR Local Block TLV MUST include a SID/Label sub-TLV nor indicate what to 
> do if multiple are included.  The Length, again, isn't specified at all and 
> clearly has at least a minimum.   I don't see a reference to an SR Local 
> Block or the need to advertise it in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11; 
> perhaps I missed where the requirement and usage are defined?
> 
> 9) Sec 3.3: "Each time a SID from the SRLB is allocated, it SHOULD also be
>    reported to all components..."  Presumably, this is subjected to the 
> normal OSPF dampening - it'd be nice to note that somewhere - since rapid 
> sequential allocation may not provide the reporting speed anticipated.
> 
> 10) Sec 4: "AF: Address family for the prefix. Currently, the only supported
>       value is 0 for IPv4 unicast.  The inclusion of address family in
>       this TLV allows for future extension."  Could you please clarify if 
> this is to reuse the same TLV for OSPFv3 so IPv6 can be supported, are you 
> thinking of extending OSPFv2 for IPv6 prefixes for some cases or something 
> else? I think the current phrasing is likely to raise questions.  Similarly, 
> please define "Prefix length: Length of the prefix" clearly.  I really don't 
> understand what the benefit of having a TLV that pretends to support multiple 
> AFs but can't is versus the clarity of specifying the prefix lengths. 
> 
> 11) Sec 4:  Again "Length: Variable" - It should have a minimum and 
> preferable describe a function for how it is computed.  A maximum is probably 
> unlikely  with sub-TLVs.
> 
> 12) Sec 4: OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV:  Does this TLV has any meaning or 
> action associated with it without including sub-TLVs?  Are there mandatory 
> sub-TLVs?  What is a receiving router to do with it?
> 
> 13) Sec 5: "If multiple Prefix-SIDs are advertised for the same prefix, the
>   receiving router MUST use the first encoded SID and MAY use
>   subsequent SIDs."  What does this even mean?  A receiving router when 
> making the decision to use a subsequent SID is making a decision to not use 
> the first encoded SID; it's not like the router is going to stick both 
> SID/Labels onto the stack.   Please describe this in meaningful normative 
> terms.
> 
> 14) Sec 5:" When calculating the outgoing label for the prefix, the router 
> MUST
>    take into account the E and P flags advertised by the next-hop router
>    if that router advertised the SID for the prefix.  This MUST be done
>    regardless of whether the next-hop router contributes to the best
>    path to the prefix."  First, I assume this is "NP flag" because there is 
> no P flag.
>    Second - please clarify to "take into account, as described below, the E 
> and NP flags...".  Third, the M flag must also be taken into account - given 
> the text later in the section.
> 
> 15) Sec 5: "When a Prefix-SID is advertised in an Extended Prefix Range TLV, 
> then the value advertised in the Prefix SID Sub-TLV is interpreted as a
>    starting SID value."   This appears to contradict "SID/Index/Label: 
> According to the V and L flags, it contains either:
> 
>          A 32-bit index defining the offset in the SID/Label space
>          advertised by this router.
> 
>          A 24-bit label where the 20 rightmost bits are used for
>          encoding the label value."
>   I assume that what is meant by the first quote is "...is interpreted, if 
> the V flag is clear, as a starting SID value, and if the V flag is set, as a 
> starting Label value."  Otherwise, it looks like the Prefix-SID sub-TLV 
> couldn't be included in the Extended Prefix Range TLV if a label value would 
> be used.
>  
> It would be helpful for Example 2 to show the label case.
> 
> 16) Sec 6.1: "aggregate IGP or TE path cost."  Given that this is an OSPF 
> draft, it'd be helpful to indicate whether there are challenges with 
> non-comparable OSPF metrics (I'm thinking about AS-external type 2 costs) or 
> if the path will never include such costs.  
> 
> 17) Sec 6.2: "a domain and hence need to be disambiguated using a 
> domain-unique Router-ID."  Given that the Prefix-SIDs and sub-TLVs can be 
> distributed between areas and even redistributed between protocols, please 
> clearly define what is meant by a "domain" or point to the appropriate 
> definition.
> 
> 18) Sec 4, 5, 6:  Is it possible to have an OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV 
> that includes both a Prefix SID Sub-TLV and a SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV?   
> What does that mean? 
> 
> What does it mean if there are multiple prefixes described in the OSPF 
> Extended Prefix Range TLV that includes a SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV?  Does 
> the SID/Label sub-sub-TLV indicate a single SID Index or Label that is used 
> for the single path to all those prefixes?  Is it the start of a list of SID 
> Indices or Labels?
> I see that the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV can be in both the OSPF Extended 
> Prefx Range TLV as well as the OSPF Extended Prefix TLV - but there is no 
> text on differences in interpretation.
> 
> 19) Sec 7.1 & 7.2: Another  couple "Length: Variable."  Please actually 
> specify the value. I think that, given the padding to 32-bit alignment, there 
> is a single correct value.
> 
> 20) Sec 7.1 and 7.2: Given that the Flag bits have exactly the same meaning - 
> it'd be clearer to have them defined once.
> 
> 21) Sec 8.1: "An SR Mapping Server MUST use the OSPF Extended Prefix Range 
> TLV when advertising SIDs for prefixes.  Prefixes of different route-types 
> can be combined in a single OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV advertised by an 
> SR Mapping Server."    So - I can't find a normative definition of an SRMS to 
> determine why it is always necessary to use an OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV 
> instead of an OSPF Extended Prefix TLV.   I don't see how advertising 
> prefixes from different route-types can work unless the prefixes are 
> adjacent, which seems likely to be uncommon.  Perhaps what is meant is 
> "Because the OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV doesn't include a Route-Type 
> field, as in the OSPF Extended Prefix TLV, it is possible to include adjacent 
> prefixes from different Route-Types in the OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV."
> 
> 22) Sec 8.1: "If multiple routers advertise a Prefix-SID for the same prefix, 
> then
> the Prefix-SID MUST be the same.  This is required in order to allow traffic 
> load-balancing when multiple equal cost paths to the destination exist in the 
> OSPFv2 routing domain."  How is this enforced?  What are the consequences of 
> it not being conformed to?  This is NOT a protocol implementation 
> requirement.  This should really be called out in a Manageability 
> Considerations with warnings.
> 
> 23) Sec 8.2:"If no Prefix-SID was advertised for the prefix in the source area
>       by the router that contributes to the best path to the prefix, the
>       originating ABR will use the Prefix-SID advertised by any other
>       router when propagating the Prefix-SID for the prefix to other
>       areas."  I believe that this depends on the assumption that if a 
> Prefix-SID is advertised by any router, the Prefix-SID will be the same.  
> Please be explicit in this assumption, since the requirement on the network 
> operator should be clear as well as the consequences of not conforming.
> 
> 24) Sec 10:  The Implementation Status section should indicate that it is to 
> be removed before publication as an RFC.   Also, the complete implementation 
> part seems a bit dated - given the draft's technical changes in the last 2 
> years.
> 
> 
> NITS:
> 
> 1) Sec 2.1: s/"SID/Label TLV"/"SID/Label sub-TLV"
> 
> 2) Sec 3.2:"Initially, the only supported Sub-TLV is the SID/Label TLV as 
> defined
>    in Section 2.1.  The SID/Label advertised in the SID/Label TLV
>    represents the first SID/Label in the advertised range."
>    replace SID/Label TLV with SID/Label sub-TLV.
> 
> 3) Sec 3.3 & Sec 3.4: " The SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV is a top-level TLV 
> of the Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770])."   Please 
> correct the descriptions (many) to SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV to SR Local 
> Block SRLB TLV.   The same issue exists for "SRMS Preference Sub-TLV".
> 
> Regards,
> Alia
> 
> 
> 
> 

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