Hi Yi,
I fully agree that support for NSH has been dragging along for to long.
The prime reason for this (in addition to the dependency on the L3
tunneling) have been the mentioned conceptual problems with the current
patches. Our initiative is the attempt to put NSH on a solid basis in
OF/OVS and make faster progress by bundling all forces that agree on the
solution documented in the Google doc.
We wouldn't pursue this if we saw a chance of upstreaming the NSH
patches as they are now. We still hope that you can agree on the
proposed approach and help making NSH happen soon.
Please find some more answers below.
BR, Jan
On 2017-01-03 01:59, Yang, Yi Y wrote:
Jan, we can’t always be waiting endlessly, L3 patchset has been in
Linux kernel no matter you like it or not, we’re just to make sure ovs
can work with it, VxLAN-gpe is not only for NSH.
If you think L3 patchset in Linux kernel has any issue, please send
out your fix patches as soon as possible, it can be ported to ovs,
this isn’t an excuse we wait endlessly. I don’t think we need to wait it.
About several NSH-related issues you mentioned, I don’t think they are
big issues,
Jan: “The NXM fields for NSH are used both as packet match fields and
as packet metadata fields (after decap). This ambiguity leads to
problems, latest when dealing with NSH in NSH packets.”
Yi: VxLAN tunnel metadata used the same way, isn’t it? What problems
do you mean? I believe we can fix them even if they are really
so-called “problems”.
Tunnel metadata do not have that issue. They are only valid after the
tunnel packet has been decapsulated or before it is encapsulated, but
never when it is encapsulated. However, if you use OXM fields both for
matching present packet headers and for keeping their content as packet
metadata after decapsulation, both the meaning of matching on them and
manipulating them is essentially undefined. This is most obvious for a
packet with two NSH headers in a row (hierarchical SFC).
Jan: “They introduce push/pop_nsh OpenFlow actions without dealing
with the resulting non-Ethernet packets in the pipeline. The behavior
is not at all well defined.”
Yi: L3 patchset is just for this, isn’t it? Your new proposal will
also depend on L3 patchset, right?
No, the L3 patch set merely allows to connect L3 ports to an Ethernet
only (non-PTAP) OF pipeline. The packets in the OF pipeline are
logically always L2 packets, even though the representation inside
ofproto-dpif may temporarily omit the Ethernet header from the packet.
But the L2 fields dl_src, dl_dst and dl_type can be matched on and
manipulated by the OF controller at any time. When a packet is sent to
an Ethernet port, the L2 header containing these fields is always present.
There is nothing in the L3 tunneling patch set that would allow an OF
controller to modify the packet type in the pipeline. For this we need
the concept of packet-type aware pipeline and the packet_type match field.
The new proposal based on PTAP does indeed depend on "versatile" tunnel
ports, as e.g. already implemented in the kernel datapath. Zoltan and I
are very close to having the user-space parts of the L3 tunneling patch
sets adapted to the packet_type concept. These replace the user-space
patches in your latest L3 tunneling patch set. Then we'd have work
packages 1,2,3 and 6 of the document in place and we could focus in
parallel on 4 (PTAP), 5 (EXT-382) and NSH MD1 (7 and 8).
Jan: “The re-use of the Geneve tunnel metada fields for NSH MD2 TLVs
is problematic because
a) it again mixes packet metadata and header fields and
b) it couldn't handle NSH MD2 in Geneve tunnels.”
Yi: You have to admit this is the existing best solution for MD type
2, it is not perfect, but it is ready for use. I don’t think people
will use GENEVE for NSH now, we can modify it to adapt to such use
case if people really would like to do that way.
Using Tunnel TLV Metadata fields for NSH MD2 packet headers is
conceptually wrong and not general as it would break if one carried NSH
over Geneve. We should not upstream a broken solution that will have to
be redone (in an incompatible way) sooner or later.
Jan, I don’t think the new proposal fixed the above issues you
mentioned, on the contrary, it will make things more complicated. Why
don’t we go fats path instead take a from-a-scratch way?
I don't really see where things are getting more complicated. Large
parts of the solution actually carry over easily. From the OF controller
perspective, the NSH pipeline can be just as simple as before, as we
have tried to demonstrate with the example flows in the document.
*From:*Jan Scheurich [mailto:jan.scheur...@web.de]
*Sent:* Friday, December 30, 2016 6:34 PM
*To:* Yang, Yi Y <yi.y.y...@intel.com>; Jan Scheurich
<jan.scheur...@ericsson.com>; Zoltán Balogh
<zoltan.bal...@ericsson.com>; Jiri Benc (jb...@redhat.com)
<jb...@redhat.com>; Pravin Shelar <pshe...@ovn.org>; Simon Horman
(simon.hor...@netronome.com) <simon.hor...@netronome.com>;
'jpet...@ovn.org' <jpet...@ovn.org>; 'ja...@ovn.org' <ja...@ovn.org>;
'Ben Pfaff' <bpf...@vmware.com>; 'ben.mackcr...@corsa.com'
<ben.mackcr...@corsa.com>; d...@openvswitch.org; Zhou, Danny
<danny.z...@intel.com>
*Subject:* Re: [ovs-dev] Sync on PTAP, EXT-382 and NSH
Hi Yi,
Thanks for the confirmation and for rebasing the existing L3 tunneling
patches to include VXLAN-GPE.
Unfortunately, Simon's original user-space implementation in patches
9/17 through 11/17 using base_layer and offset fields in dp_packet is
not compatible to our ongoing implementation of versatile tunnel ports
in PTAP and non-PTAP bridges, which is based on an explicit
packet_type field.
To avoid extensive rework, I would rather not merge these changes into
master now but substitute them with the final implementation. This is
work-package "3 - L3 ports in non-PTAP pipeline" in our Google doc and
Zoltan and I will have that ready soon.
Regarding the implementation of NSH support, we should work together
to implement what is described in the Google doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oWMYUH8sjZJzWa72o2q9kU0N6pNE-rwZcLH3-kbbDR8/edit#heading=h.wp4o2op1lp9z
In our opinion the earlier NSH patches cannot be upstreamed because of
a couple of fundamental conceptual problems:
1. The NXM fields for NSH are used both as packet match fields and as
packet metadata fields (after decap).
This ambiguity leads to problems, latest when dealing with NSH in
NSH packets.
2. They introduce push/pop_nsh OpenFlow actions without dealing with
the resulting non-Ethernet packets in the pipeline. The behavior
is not at all well defined.
3. The re-use of the Geneve tunnel metada fields for NSH MD2 TLVs is
problematic because
a) it again mixes packet metadata and header fields and
b) it couldn't handle NSH MD2 in Geneve tunnels.
All these issues are addressed in the proposed new solution built on
PTAP and EXT-382. The fundamentals are aligned with ONF (OXM classes
already assigned), so that there is a good chance that we can feed the
OVS implementation of NSH into the next OpenFlow standard. The first
phase covering the fixed MD1 NSH header should also be possible to
upstream in Q1/17, quite soon after the basic patches for PTAP and
EXT-382.
Let's have a direct talk when I'm back in office after New Year.
Regards, Jan
On 2016-12-23 01:51, Yang, Yi Y wrote:
Hi, Jan
I confirm I can take VxLAN-gpe and NSH related work, now I'm pushing
Jiri's L3 patches ot ovs in order that it can be ported into ovs as early as
possible, Pravin, Joe and Jarno found some vlan-related issues in Jiri's L3
patches in net-next and worked out several patches for net-next, but they are
not merged yet.
But I have had a workable local ovs version with Jiri's l3 patches and
Jarno's fix patches merged, I have worked out several patches to make sure
VxLAN-gpe can work in layer3 and layer 2 mode, now they are ready except DPDK
userspace has some issues which I'm debugging.
So I think L3 patches and VxLAN-gpe will be ready very soon.
I remember every guys agreed our old NSH implementation with MD type 2
support, I think that will be the fastest path we can take for NSH support, I
dare to guarantee it can be ready to merge about one month after (including
kernel patches and ovs patches)
I'm wondering if you guys can make a form to list pros and cons for the old
implementation way and this new one in order that every people can clearly know
what the advantages and disadvantages for them are.
From: Jan Scheurich [mailto:jan.scheur...@ericsson.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:51 PM
To: Zoltán Balogh<zoltan.bal...@ericsson.com> <mailto:zoltan.bal...@ericsson.com>; Yang, Yi Y<yi.y.y...@intel.com> <mailto:yi.y.y...@intel.com>; Jiri Benc (jb...@redhat.com
<mailto:jb...@redhat.com>)<jb...@redhat.com> <mailto:jb...@redhat.com>; Pravin Shelar<pshe...@ovn.org> <mailto:pshe...@ovn.org>; Simon Horman (simon.hor...@netronome.com
<mailto:simon.hor...@netronome.com>)<simon.hor...@netronome.com> <mailto:simon.hor...@netronome.com>; 'jpet...@ovn.org <mailto:jpet...@ovn.org>'<jpet...@ovn.org> <mailto:jpet...@ovn.org>;
'ja...@ovn.org <mailto:ja...@ovn.org>'<ja...@ovn.org> <mailto:ja...@ovn.org>; 'Ben Pfaff'<bpf...@vmware.com> <mailto:bpf...@vmware.com>; 'ben.mackcr...@corsa.com
<mailto:ben.mackcr...@corsa.com>'<ben.mackcr...@corsa.com> <mailto:ben.mackcr...@corsa.com>;d...@openvswitch.org <mailto:d...@openvswitch.org>
Subject: RE: Sync on PTAP, EXT-382 and NSH
Thanks for the good meeting. Here are my notes:
Date: 2016-12-21, 17-18:30 CET
Participants: Jarno R, Ben P, Ben M-C, Jiri B, Simon H, Zoltan B, Jan S
Summary:
· Discussed making PTAP, EXT-382 and NSH available as extensions to
OF 1.3.
· No big deal for the match fields and the encap/decap actions
· Potential problem could be the missing packet_type information in
OF 1.3 Packet In, Packet Out and Table Features (Note: Closer inspection of OF
1.5.1 spec reveals that OXM packet_type is part of struct ofp_match in Packet
In and Packet Out. It should be OK for an OF 1.3 controller extended with PTAP
support)
· Is it simpler for the controllers to upgrade to OF 1.5?
· Deferred the decision
· Agreed to use the (to be assigned) OXM field code points for
packet_type and NSH in OVS for all OF versions
· Agreed to allow all NS=1 packet types received from/sent to a
tunnel port that uses the Ethertype name space in its protocol field (like
GRE). Other versatile tunnel ports (like VXLAN-GPE) which have their own code
points require explicit mapping and must drop packets for which no such mapping
exists.
· Discussed introduction of a new OXM class for the proposed GEN_TLV
fields
· No problem to reserve an OXM class even before those fields are
standardized
· For standardization we also need to specify a dynamic binding
mechanism between protocol TLVs and GEN_TLV fields. We can submit the mechanism
to be developed in OVS for standardization when its stable.
· Walk-through of division into work packages:
· Some follow up needed for the L3 packet support kernel datapath
patches
· Rest OK
· Technical discussion around GEN_TLV and use for NSH MD2 in
conjunction with encap(NSH) to be continued in the Google doc.
· Time line:
· The entire work should be targeting OVS 2.8 with feature freeze
around July
· OVS 2.7 is having feature freeze already in early January
· Work packages can be upstreamed individually. NSH MD1 support
doesn't have to wait for MD2
· Basically agreed to the work split proposed in the document:
· RedHat is taking the patches for L3 tunnel configuration
(including use of RTNETLINK for config)
· Ericsson take the infrastructure components (L3-tunnels, PTAP,
Basic EXT-382)
· Jarno (VMware) will handle the GEN_TLV infrastructure
· Confirm with Yi Yang (Intel): Can they take VXLAN-GPE and the
NSH-specific WPs? Or do they need help?
· Way of working
· Continue the meeting series for coordination of effort
· Can use a feature integration branch to ease the joint development
and test
· Review of patches mainly through the ovs-dev mailing list
· Use tools like git citool to break up larger patches into a series
of smaller patches for review
-----Original Appointment-----
From: Jan Scheurich
Sent: Sunday, 18 December, 2016 15:34
To: Jan Scheurich; Zoltán Balogh; Yang, Yi Y (yi.y.y...@intel.com
<mailto:yi.y.y...@intel.com><mailto:yi.y.y...@intel.com>
<mailto:yi.y.y...@intel.com>); Jiri Benc (jb...@redhat.com
<mailto:jb...@redhat.com><mailto:jb...@redhat.com>
<mailto:jb...@redhat.com>); Pravin Shelar; Simon Horman
(simon.hor...@netronome.com
<mailto:simon.hor...@netronome.com><mailto:simon.hor...@netronome.com>
<mailto:simon.hor...@netronome.com>);jpet...@ovn.org
<mailto:jpet...@ovn.org><mailto:jpet...@ovn.org>
<mailto:jpet...@ovn.org>;ja...@ovn.org
<mailto:ja...@ovn.org><mailto:ja...@ovn.org>
<mailto:ja...@ovn.org>; Ben Pfaff; 'ben.mackcr...@corsa.com
<mailto:ben.mackcr...@corsa.com>';d...@openvswitch.org
<mailto:d...@openvswitch.org><mailto:d...@openvswitch.org>
<mailto:d...@openvswitch.org>
Subject: Sync on PTAP, EXT-382 and NSH
When: Wednesday, 21 December, 2016 17:00-18:30 (UTC+01:00) Amsterdam,
Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna.
Where: Skype Meeting
Moved to Wednesday same time to accommodate Jiri.
Hope this is still OK for the others.
Hello all,
I would like to call for a final sync meeting before the Christmas break.
Now that we have gone through the main aspects of the design, I would like
to focus on how to divide the entire function into manageable pieces, discuss
the potential work split, an integration anatomy and a rough time plane for
upstreaming. I will try to prepare input in our Google doc for this.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oWMYUH8sjZJzWa72o2q9kU0N6pNE-rwZcLH3-kbbDR8/edit
If there are questions left regarding the design, please bring them up as
well. You can also comment on the document at any time.
Regards, Jan
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