Hi.

I use some similar relay circuits myself, mostly for controlling large
heaters on a home brewery setup.  I do worry about the failure modes
that could occur during use, moreso that the startup state.  In
particular, some time ago, I had trouble with my 1-wire network that
would result in owfs hanging, and an inability to send the appropriate
"relay off" command.  Now and then, I still lose communication with
individual devices.  Even with the best of communications, I don't
particularly trust my computers or software to fail safely either.

I've toyed with timer circuits to shut off the relay if not reset, by,
say toggling the device state.  I also have a couple of Pascal
Baerten's 1-wire microcontrollers that can make it easy to combine
this functionality.  Where heaters are involved, separate, mechanical
thermostats can help.  Overall, though, I haven't really settled upon
a protection mechanism that I really trust, and is convenient enough
to simply use with every relay.

What do others do about this?

Thanks.
~Jacob



On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:56:13 +1100
Nathan Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 06:53:29PM +0000, Mick Sulley wrote:
> > Yes that is pretty much the circuit I have used.  The thing that feels 
> > wrong to me is that the relay is energised until you turn the DS2406 
> > output on.
> 
> Yes, use a pnp transistor instead, emitter to v+, base to ds2406 via a
> suitable resistor, collector to the existing relay portion with diodes
> etc.  That would also result in much less power dissipation when the
> device is off.  Something like figure 3 here:
> http://www.rason.org/Projects/transwit/transwit.htm
> (but I wouldn't bother with the biasing 47k resistor)
> 
> njh
> 
> > 
> > Mick
> > 
> > On 13/12/11 16:49, Zoff wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > you can take a look at my 1wire relay. maybe its of some use to you:
> > >
> > > http://1wire.zoff.cc/2010/09/18/31
> > >
> > > it uses a DS2406 and a normal relay to switch high power loads
> > > it can easly switch 220V loads, but i take no responsibility if you 
> > > house burns down!
> > >
> > > i have 2 of those in use 24/7 since Sept. 2010, but only with low Watt 
> > > loads for now.
> > >
> > >
> > >     cheers,
> > >     Zoff.
> > >
> > > Mick Sulley wrote:
> > >> Hi Jerry,
> > >>
> > >> Your system sounds interesting.  I also have a control system based upon
> > >> 1-wire and Python which controls a solar (hot water) heating system
> > >> heating the domestic hot water and a swimming pool.  My plan is to
> > >> extend it to control the whole of the central heating system as well.
> > >>
> > >> Reliability is key to this sort of project and each time I have had a
> > >> failure (there have been a few!) I have tried to identify the root cause
> > >> and prevent it happening again, but this is an ongoing task.
> > >>
> > >> I use a mix of home brew outputs based on DS2406, and X-10 to drive
> > >> valves and pumps.  X-10 seemed the easy way to go but has not proved to
> > >> be very reliable and so I am moving to the DS2406 solution. What do you
> > >> use for driving outputs?  It seems to be quite difficult to get
> > >> something that is fail safe, i.e. fails to off rather than on.
> > >>
> > >> In terms of timing, my system reads all the temperatures, currently 26
> > >> sensors, then sets the outputs according to the logic and logs all the
> > >> data to a MySQL database.  This takes around 20 seconds and it then
> > >> loops round again.
> > >>
> > >> User interaction is by a local web page in PHP which reads and writes to
> > >> the database.
> > >>
> > >> It runs on a server built from an old PC, located in the loft.  I have
> > >> also built a second similar server, so that I can easily swap the plugs
> > >> over if the first server fails.
> > >>
> > >> I have notices that many people use hubs to split their 1-wire networks,
> > >> currently mine is a single network with everything on it.  I would be
> > >> interested to hear views on the use of hubs, do they improve reliability
> > >> or speed?  Are there other advantages?
> > >>
> > >> Cheers
> > >> Mick
> > >>
> > >> On 12/12/11 22:19, Jerry Scharf wrote:
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm finally finding some time to write the next generation of my home
> > >>> control system. I have had a number on control ideas I have wanted to
> > >>> try out, and it is time to give them a try. The control and sensor 
> > >>> plant
> > >>> in my house is close to ridiculously complex.
> > >>>
> > >>> One fun thing is that I am getting rid of the ability for users to set
> > >>> the room target temperature. Instead, there will be buttons that say
> > >>> "I'm cold" and and "I'm hot". Push once if you are a little so, push
> > >>> more than once if you are really so. The rest is figured out by the
> > >>> control system.
> > >>>
> > >>> This comes from my belief that 72F is a random control knob that has no
> > >>> real meaning to a person in a room. If you want to prove this, go to 
> > >>> the
> > >>> supermarket, pick up a room thermometer from the housewares aisle, then
> > >>> go and stand in the section where the frozen food is. How cold do you
> > >>> feel, what's the temperature say. Odds are you feel colder and the
> > >>> temperature says it's higher...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I am building this in python/django (ruby on rails for python) an a
> > >>> linux box. There is a database at the center of things and I want to
> > >>> make the various parts to be independent processes. I want this so I 
> > >>> can
> > >>> do things like replace the heating controls without impacting the
> > >>> ventilation and cooling code at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> The 1 wire reading is pretty easy, I create a process for each bus and
> > >>> each process pulls the list to read, finds which ones are on its bus,
> > >>> reads them and stores them into the database. Each process is self
> > >>> scheduling (easy pieces built into python for this.)
> > >>>
> > >>> I am having more trouble deciding on partitioning the controller and
> > >>> driver parts. Part of this comes from how to make things stable and
> > >>> simple, part comes from needing to decide where different functions
> > >>> should be done.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't think each process should be accessing the control points
> > >>> directly, these are mostly done via a mport box interfacing RS485 nudam
> > >>> controller pods. Having each one setting up telnet sessions and writing
> > >>> whenever they think it's reasonable does not seem like the path to
> > >>> reliability.
> > >>>
> > >>> I also want to be able to do things like:
> > >>> Almost all controls are variable, and I want to use this. So when a 
> > >>> zone
> > >>> calls for heat, it wants to open the water valves in a particular
> > >>> stepped pattern, go to an higher than final flow rate for a period of
> > >>> time (based on the lag of the zone) and then return to the final flow
> > >>> rate until the temperature reaches the target.
> > >>>
> > >>> This means that a single valve may be getting new position commands
> > >>> every 10 seconds or so during the startup phase. I have plenty of
> > >>> signalling bandwidth and there is plent of slow in the control 
> > >>> system, I
> > >>> just don't want to swamp either the database or the cpu by having lots
> > >>> of processes polling every second. I also don't want t be waiting 15s
> > >>> for something to happen that was only supposed to be there for 10s.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I would like opinions on two things:
> > >>>      Do you think that things like start-up patterns should go in the
> > >>> heating controller or the driver?
> > >>>
> > >>>      What method makes a reasonable balance of simplicity, 
> > >>> efficiency and
> > >>> response for passing actions between the controllers and drivers?
> > >>>
> > >>> All other kibitzing is also welcome.
> > >>>
> > >>> jerry
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > >>> Learn Windows Azure Live!  Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011
> > >>> Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for
> > >>> developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and 
> > >>> what it
> > >>> provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online.
> > >>> Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure
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> > >>
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