Dear Robyn, you are so correct, it CAN HAPPEN within the system. If the evolution is slow, at least it is there (in spite of setbacks), and I totally agree about the shiftwork connundrum. We need to get rid of universal shiftwork for midwives, but we do need to retain a certain amount. If we espouse choice for women, we can't deny it to midwives. Midwives can only do what they can within the changing constraints of their personal and financial lives, and so must also be able to have choice and control within their working life, too. How we achieve a best fit between the needs of women/midwives and the powerful invested others will be a test of our survival as a profession. I read Karen Guilliland's paper again yesterday (downloaded from the ACE Graphics site, Future Birth Conference of last year). Inspirational stuff, really. Cheers, Trish -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.