"the baby's heartrate was dipping a bit with each contraction (which is normal is it not?)"
At 6cms dilatation it is not normal for a baby's heartrate to be dipping with EACH contraction in a normal labour. A baby's heartrate should be either accelerating or staying stable during contractions in the FIRST stage of labour. (Of course there are other aspects to the heartrate which are significant too, such as the actual rate/baseline etc.) To find out if the decelerations are causing distress for the baby many teaching hospitals have access to P.H machines to assess foetal distress. Distress can be diagnosed by the pH of the baby's scalp blood. This can assess whether the decelerations are causing hypoxia (lack of oxygen) or "distress" in the baby. An invasive procedure, but better than an unnecessary caesarean. Regards, Christina. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne and Caroline McCullough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, 26 October 2003 3:05 Subject: [ozmidwifery] Another unec. C-section... >Hi all! > >Well, last night we got a call that our neice Sarah was in labour and at >the hospital after having 2 days of back labour (early labour for 18 >hours and active for 12 according to the hospital). She was exhausted so >she had an epidural and the rest you can guess. The thing is, she had >dilated to six cm but doc comes and in and says it has been too long and >that the baby's heartrate was dipping a bit with each contraction (which >is normal is it not?) and it "might be in distress in a few hours time" >(doc's bedtime my thought was). So, he coerced them into having the >c-section on the offchance that the baby "might be in distress" later. >Maybe she would have been too tired to keep going much longer I don't >know but I do know an unnecessary c-section when I hear words like that. >Apparently the attending midwife at that point was pissed off and >rightly so. Sarah's mum says Sarah was quite traumatised by the whole >thing. > >I am going to visit her and her new baby girl tomorrow to see how she's >doing. That said, I cannot stress enough the importance of giving a new >mother a listening ear after an experience like that. Mothers need to >debrief..their feelings are important and they often get sidelined by >family and friends because everyone focuses on the baby. > >Cheers, > >Cas > >Cas McCullough >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >www.casmccullough.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff >Sent: Monday, 20 October 2003 6:33 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald > > >Hey Nigel! >Welcome back! >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Selangor Maternity Centre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:21 PM >Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald > > >> Hi All, >> >> Thanks Lynne whereas I agree with the main theme of the >> inappropriateness >of >> such a trial it is the randomisation that appears to be the major >> sticking point. >> >> I would welcome a comparative trial as it would show, in my opinion >without >> a shadow of a doubt the benefits of vaginal birth over an over >> employed obstetric intervention. >> >> The trial would instantly be flawed but I fear like the breech trial >> would become a singular point of reference to all wishing to simply >> advise women rather than empower women through information. >> >> We know the flaws in the touted breech trial were the location and >> quality of staff chosen to assist in womens pursuence of vaginal >> breech. The lack >of >> familiarity or experience itself was somewhat prohibitive. Not much is >made >> of this in the official critiques of this now perceived benchmark >> study >and >> as a result women are misinformed and disempowered through a lack of >> information. >> >> In the case for elective caesareans this would be the same, a unit >> where >the >> randomisation of women to that extent could occur is not very likely >> to be an actively birthing women centered unit? Now if we can only >> remove the messy hit or miss act of conception by a controlled >> trial....but then there is sometimes a lack of experience in >this >> department too for many...LOL >> >> >> Love and Peace >> Nigel >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lynne Staff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2003 09:45 >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald >> >> >> "there is this trial which gives you a 50-50 chance of totally >> avoiding >all >> this pain........" >> A father-to-be I saw the other day, whose wife has had 2 caesareans >> (and >is >> having the devil of a time finding anyone to support her for a planned > >> vaginal birth), made the very pertinent point that 'natural' (read >vaginal) >> birth is ALWAYS portrayed as the worst pain a woman can ever have - >> too terrible to contemplate, unbearable and totally avoidable, while >> the portrayal of caesarean birth is ALWAYS pain-free, peaceful, smiles > >> all round.....etc >> >> Should publish some photos/stories of infected wounds, blood loss, how >women >> vomit when their uterus is pulled outside their abdominal cavity, >> because >it >> is easier to suture, the trouble they have accessing their babies >> because >of >> the physical limitation of spinals and post-op pain (although that is >> becoming such an art that it is very 'manageable' nowadays), babies >> with lacerations on their face or buttocks, babies on oxygen, >> sometimes for a week, and the separation that goes with that....as you > >> can see this is a sore point with me. >> >> This trial disturbs me greatly for many reasons - but it's not just >> the trial (although if the findings are that women like it better, >> that it is >as >> safe), then God help us! The wholehearted embracing of the findings of > >> the term breech trial (which scares the living daylights out of me) >> will pale into significance compared to this (and the findings from >> the term breech trial will be no doubt used to substantiate the >> rationale of this trial in the first place........) >> >> As I see it, one of the biggest probblems is the way information is >provided >> to the women in any 'obstetric' situation. I can imagine the way the >> information will be provided for this. Major heebeejeebies. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Neretlis, Bethany" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 6:38 PM >> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald >> >> >> > we have been discussing this article too, or an offshoot from perth. > >> > it >> seems to me to be a further automatic kneejerk reaction to litigation >> from those experts at strange who are from the usa. i can just see >> some >insurance >> company paying for this research, and unfortunately i can even see >> some women being manovoured into it. can't you see some ob. finding a >> scared pregnant woman who is vasilating over whether she wants to >> suffer pain in labour and saying "there is this trial which gives you >> a 50-50 chance of totally avoiding all this pain........" it just >> makes you cry. i have run into this attitude towards vaginal birth >> amoung surgeons and anaethatists when i worked in theatre so its not >> too far a stretch of the imagination >to >> see where this came from. just the idea of someone being serious aout >> this research gives me the heeijeebies. it would be sooooo immoral to >> do this >to >> women. i'm sure that the researchers could somehow write it to pass an > >> ethics board, how i don't know, but they'd get some ethics lawyer >> involved and before you know it , white isn't white at all, its black. >> > >> > love Bethany >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Justine Caines [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Sent: Friday, 17 October 2003 16:00 >> > To: OzMid List >> > Subject: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald >> > >> > >> > Hi All >> > >> > The SMH have confirmed the following letter will appear in >> > tomorrow's >> paper. >> > >> > Justine >> > >> > >> > As soon as safety is mentioned in obstetrics by Obstetricians >> > there's a >> mad rush. >> > >> > What they neglect to inform us is that many of their practices are >> > not >> based on evidence and that despite huge medical intervention, safety >> has >not >> improved in Australia. In fact the latest data on maternal deaths saw > >> an increase. This study represents a very sad fringe of the medical >> profession. >> > >> > A woman is 4-5 times more likely to die from a caesarean section >> > than >from >> a normal vaginal birth. A figure quoted in the last Senate Committee >report >> into childbirth procedures. It is also well noted that surgical >> intervention in birth increases post-natal depression. With a C/S >> rate >2.5 >> times higher than the World Health Organisation recommends, high >incidences >> of post-natal depression and no report into what seems to be a high >> incidence of maternal morbidity, this study would be highly unethical >> and >a >> denial of a woman's most basic human right. >> > -- >> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. >> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. >> >> -- >> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. >> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. >> >> >> ********************************************************************** >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they >> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify >> the system manager. >> >> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by >> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. >> >> www.mimesweeper.com >> ********************************************************************** >> >> -- >> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. >> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > >-- >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. >Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > >-- >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. >Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
