Hi Tania, thanks, and the idea of everyone doing 3 years is certainly woth thinking about, maybe with status for some subjects like anat & phys. I know at FUSA the 1st year B Mid students were doing a lot of the first year nursing subjects (whether that was only because the course was just beginning I don't know), so I guess the first year could be cut out, and do 2 years with the same amount of births and follow-through women? I would have loved to do that. Don't know if it's possible in that amount of time though. I have to say I agree with the earlier thread of conversation that the actual catching of the baby is over-emphasized (don't babies come out by themselves?), and that spending the time with women in labour, observing quietly, assisting, learning how to "be" is more important, and seemimgly not counted in assessment. At least in my training it was "catches" that counted, though the forwarded email from Nicki Leap seems to differ, and maybe it is different for the 3 year program. Anyway, enough raving from me. Might see you at the caseload meeting in Mt. Barker. Love, Liz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tania Smallwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998
> Well said Liz. Although I can't and wouldn't speak on behalf of other > 'nurse/midwives' (which incidentally is not how I see myself, but is a > common term used both here and in the US), you certainly articulated how I > think many of us feel who were, in my mind, unfortunate enough not to have > access to pure midwifery education. My radical idea to help midwifery stand > up as a separate profession, is for ALL midwives, nurses or not, to be > educated together, 3 years, same requirements. I feel that this is the only > way to truly divorce ourselves from that old adage of being the > Obstetrician's handmaiden. That's not a statement about the irrelevance of > nursing, or that I think one is better than the other, it's what I think > really needs to happen for women, and for the midwifery profession. And as > a nurse in a previous life, yes, I would be willing to do that. But that's > a bit off topic, what is relevant is that right now there are lots of us in > this great country of ours, educated in varying ways, to be with women as > midwives. We need to embrace that, not allow it to tear us apart. > > > There is so much at stake for women and midwives at the moment in our > current environment of political dictatorship and fear of litigation. > Sadly, this seems to interpret into the midwifery profession falling apart > at the seams, with little factions forming, all with their own idea of what > midwifery truly is. I find it sad that I can truly appreciate the skill and > worth of the midwife who works tirelessly in the NICU, (and I am acutely > aware that I don't posess some of those necessary skills for that area), > supporting families and babies through a tenuous time, but that I don't > receive the same respect back, as I work using my own set of skills, > supporting women to birth safely at home. We are all skilled, in many > different ways. Our diversity and differing areas of skill and interest > should be what unites us, not what forces us apart. And the ways in which > we are educated to work in our area of calling should also be that of great > interest, information sharing, and a means of learning from each other, not > a wedge to drive our profession even further away from unity. > > Enough of my early morning ramblings... > > Tania > x > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Newnham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: > uterine rupture 1998 > > > > Hi Jen, > > I am just concerned that this becomes another 'them and us' amongst > > midwives. I am an RN trained midwife, though would have done three year B > > mid if it had been available. I am also a home birth mother and I feel > there > > is an expectation that RN trained midwives somehow do not carry the same > > philosophies of normal birth. The university I trained at for my mid was > > passionately non-interventionist, and I have to say the theory-practice > gap > > was huge for us too, all interventionist practice being experienced on > > placement. > > > > As Trish, quoting Nicky, so eloquently said, "a midwife is a midwife is a > > midwife". All of the amazing independent midwives that I have met, worked > > with, workshopped with were mostly all trained in Australia in the last 30 > > or so years. Which means they were nurses first. The most vocal of our > > university lecturers who have pushed for B Mid fall into the same > category. > > > > I can see what you are saying Jen, and yes, I would have preferred to have > > had the midwifery training that you have had, but I don't find it any more > > difficult, I shouldn't think, to be comfortable with non-interventionist, > > natural birth. It is a deep part of my being, and I am just as passionate > > about it as those lucky enough to have done a three year B-Mid degree. I > > think we need to be wary about the systemic horizontal violence that > occurs > > in midwifery, as in other oppressed groups (i.e. mid has been historically > > oppressed in this country both by the medical and the nursing > professions), > > and we need to work together to change the system of maternity care in > this > > country no matter where of how we trained, if we are passionate about > this. > > That is precisely why the three year B mid is so vital, and political, > > because it forms part of an historical change for the autonomy of > midwifery. > > > > Good luck with finishing your course, > > Liz. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jen Semple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 6:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: > > uterine rupture 1998 > > > > > > > Hi Liz, > > > > > > I was responding to someone else's posts that they had > > > spoken to mid students who felt that they were not > > > being taught about intervention-free birth. I was > > > saying that I have been taught & do feel confident (as > > > a beginning practitioner!) with intervention-free > > > birth after 3 years at uni & the requirement to be the > > > primary accoucher for 40 non-instrumental births. > > > Since grad dip midwives have 12 months @ uni are are > > > required to primary accoucher 20 births, I wonder if > > > it is more difficult to feel confident w/ > > > intervention-free birth w/ this training. > > > > > > I'm not at all saying good or bad, them or us. Just > > > wondering out loud. I definitely don't think that I'd > > > feel as confident after only 12 months, but maybe if I > > > had done general nursing first I would. > > > > > > Hope that makes sense. > > > > > > Jen > > > 3rd year BMid, Melbourne > > > > > > --- Liz Newnham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi Jen, > > > > I was curious to ask what you meant by "I wonder if > > > > it is more difficult for them". Wonder if what is > > > > more difficult? > > > > Liz > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Jen Semple > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:00 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and > > > > other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998 > > > > > > > > > > > > As a current Bachelor of Midwifery (aka direct > > > > entry)student, I can tell you a little bit about my > > > > course. > > > > > > > > I think everybody here agrees that there is no > > > > such thing as the perfect woman, the perfect > > > > midwife, or the perfect midwifery course. That > > > > said, I can promise you all that we have learnt > > > > about working in partnersip with women, what is > > > > normal birth, and how the role of the midwife > > > > changes from autonomous practitioner to "member of > > > > the team" once labour is augmented. > > > > > > > > One of the things that we struggle with most is > > > > the "theory-practice gap"... the evidence & what we > > > > are being taught at uni & then the lack of > > > > opportunity to practice in that way at present (ie > > > > we get taught about hands off or hands poised & most > > > > of us have yet to be supervised by a midwife with a > > > > birthing woman who doesn't firmly enourage us to > > > > keep a hand on the head &/or peri). Also > > > > caseload... to meet the ACMI standard, we have all > > > > completed (or are about to complete) 30 follow > > > > throughs. For many of us, that would be our > > > > preferred model of practice next year & at present, > > > > there is not one hospital in metropolitan Melbourne > > > > where we could pratice in that model. > > > > > > > > I'm not saying that all is perfect at my uni (& > > > > can't speak for all unis), but I am certain that my > > > > lecturers are knowledgable of what is normal & > > > > passionate how to keep things that way. > > > > > > > > The ACMI requirement is that we are the primary > > > > accouchuer (aka catching or delivering the baby) for > > > > 40 non-instrumental births. This is a lot of > > > > births! Many are struggling to attain this figure & > > > > many have done so in less than ideal circumstances. > > > > It is argued that this number should be reduced or > > > > that students should be able to "count" births that > > > > became instrumental, but the student remained the > > > > woman's midwife. > > > > > > > > While the midwife's role in an instrumental birth, > > > > augmented labour, etc is just as important as in a > > > > "normal" labour or birth, it is very different. > > > > The midwife is no longer the autunomous practitioner > > > > & the student is no longer gaining experience with > > > > "normalcy". > > > > > > > > Abby, I think the high standards that ACMI has set > > > > for us help ensure that we do know normal. Granted, > > > > this is still the hospital setting, but until > > > > community midwifery is more widely available to > > > > women & midwives, the reality is that the majority > > > > of student midwives cannot gain experience in this > > > > setting. > > > > > > > > I cannot speak for the education of Graduate > > > > Diploma midwives (who are already nurses)... as > > > > their midwifery program is only 12 months (& their > > > > requirement is 20 births), I wonder if it is more > > > > difficult for them? > > > > > > > > Anyway, I hope my current perspective as a student > > > > is helpful. > > > > > > > > Jen > > > > 3rd year BMid, Melbourne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! > > > > Movies. > > > > > > > > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > > > http://au.movies.yahoo.com > > > -- > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > -- > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
