I have just been surfing this site, some good stuff. I have a multi with a breech at 36+ wke at the moment and I dearly want her to be able to birth here. Cheers Judy
--- Vedrana Valèiæ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A very interesting discussion on breech births and midwives: > > http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm > > Vedrana > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Miriam Hannay > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:10 AM > To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies > > I totally understand, Susan about the whole fear of > breech birth. We have a couple of OBs who will 'let' > women birth a breech babe vaginally, but fully > managed, IOL, 16 gauge bores in both arms, hartmann's > up, McRoberts, episi, full extraction. To me this > seems torture. I am a second year Bmid student and > intending to go into independent practice, so am > availing myself of every extra learning opportunity > available. > > A fellow student and I (my lovely partner in crime), > attended Maggie Banks' emergency skills workshop in > Melbourne recently which was SO valuable, and we feel > much more comfortable about the possibility now. > > I have a dear friend whose first 'catch' as an RM was > an undiagnosed breech at home, so it does happen. We > need to be prepared and develop the skills to handle > this situation. What a shame and potential danger it > is if these skills fall by the way. > > Everyone who can should hear Maggie Banks speak, she > dispells fears and demystifies like no-one else. > > Regards, Miriam (FUSA) > > --- Susan Cudlipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also > > been a midwife long enough > > to have seen many breech births - back in the UK, > > and delivered a few > > myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at > > least they were mostly > > seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective > > C/S (nearly 21 years old > > now!) was for primip breech, although I was given > > the choice of vaginal > > birth, I knew just what that would entail within the > > large unit that I was > > obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy, > > and I chose not to go > > there, however at that time there was no question > > that I would not be able > > to have VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not > > so. > > > > A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who > > was lucky enough to see a > > less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed > > Melissa :-)) and she > > chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to > > be induced on the 'right' > > day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that > > we really don't see > > them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who > > does do them does such a > > horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S > > rather than submit to > > his handling.( you can probably guess that one too > > Mel!) > > > > It is sad that student midwives today will not learn > > these essential skills > > within the hospital system. Personally I feel > > confident that I can handle > > an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next > > generation are going to > > cope with this, there is so much fear of what is > > really only a different > > variety of birth, in the same way that any > > 'different' presentation is. > > Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie > > Banks speak, watched her > > video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers > > will know that this is > > true > > > > Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling > > having just come to > > Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself). > > It was a real shock to > > me to see how much all births are seen as being the > > doctor's property. One > > of my first births here was in a small hospital and > > I called the GP as per > > protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands > > and proceeded to rush > > in, without even washing his hands and virtually > > pushed me out of the way! > > I looked at him with horror and said quietly " I > > think I may as well finish > > the job now don't you?" He did step back and let me > > finish. Some years > > later he admitted that he had learned a few things > > from me - one of which > > was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver > > the shoulders! They > > were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby > > out, it drove me mad. > > > > >> When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician > > (often a male authority > > >> figure) telling them their baby is in danger - > > they will chose to protect > > >> their child because as a mother that is their > > instinct. > > >> > > An example of this happened to me just this week - > > the head was well and > > truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal > > distress) but OB insisted on > > listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about > > 100, and he took over > > from me to apply forceps. I was not concerned for > > the baby as I knew there > > had been no compromise throughout and that he would > > be born within minutes, > > but within the system I am obliged to defer to the > > doctor's judgement, > > whether or not I agree with it. Believe me, I know > > well what happens when > > one tries to argue!! > > > > I hope you maintain your own integrity and autonomy > > - it is very different > > here to what we knew in UK, but we do need to keep > > pushing for midwifery led > > care. I feel that much of the problem lies with > > how we are percieved and > > presented within this system. We are seen as being > > secondary and forced > > into a 'waitress' role, while doctors are glorified > > as being all-knowing > > experts. I have spent ages discussing things with > > couples only to have > > everything overturned by a 5 minute doctor > > appointment. > > Nice to have your input on the list > > Sue > > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is > > for good men to do > > nothing" > > Edmund Burke > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "brendamanning" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au> > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:26 AM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: > > > > > > > Rachel, > > > > > > Actually that was me (Brenda)not Sue, who wrote > > about the physiological > > > breeches, and I do realise now that experience is > > rare. > > > When you speak about choice & what you'd do if you > > had a breech baby > > > yourself you are really limited because there are > > not many of us in PP who > > > have experience with breeches. > > > I would definitely not alter plans to birth at > > home if my baby was breech > > > (but I have had 4 children) finding a MW to attend > > would be a difficult > > > task though! > > > There is no way on earth I'd consent to surgery to > > remove my healthy baby > > > just because he was upside down ! > > > The next best option here would be to go to our > > local private hospital > > > with my own MW & the OB who supports us (he was > > the OB who had enough > > > belief in women 10 years ago to be present for > > their breech births but now > > > is 'not allowed' to do them because of the breech > > trial). > > > I would just insist, but then I can be very > > determined !! > > > > > > BM > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "wump fish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:55 AM > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: > > > > > > > > >> Sue, you are so lucky to have cared for women > > having a physiological > > >> breech. I have only seen one vaginal breech - and > > it was far from > > >> physiological (epidural, stirrups, fiddling about > > etc). > > >> > > >> Unfortunately it doesn't matter what we teach > > women about saying 'no'. > > >> When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician > > (often a male authority > > >> figure) telling them their baby is in danger - > > they will chose to protect > > >> their child because as a mother that is their > > instinct. > > >> > > >> Women need to be making decisions such as > > c-section within a partnership > > >> relationship with a known midwife. They should be > > given honest, > > >> evidence-based info by someone who truely > > believes in the body's ability > > >> to birth (ie. not a dr) and will support their > > decision whatever it is > > >> (including c-section). Women would then be able > > to make choices which are > > >> right for them as individuals - not right for the > > system. > > >> > > >> As for breech birth. The Term-Breech Trial is > > often used by the obs as > > >> evidence that breech birth is unsafe for the > > baby. However, this is not > > >> what it shows. It can only tell us what happens > > in large hospitals with > > >> obs management of breech birth. It does not > > compare physiological birth > > >> with c-secion. Based on the findings - if I was > > planning a breech birth I > > > === message truncated === > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or > unsubscribe. > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or > unsubscribe. > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
