What i want to see in WinMo7 is.. 1. Native XAML as the general UI framework, Native XNA for games 2. Any Multimedia UI's will be based around the ZUNE interface (music , video, HD radio etc) 3. A completely revamped "Mobile Device Center" application for your mobile device, hopefully similar in design to the zune software. 4. Make the WinMoAPI's AMAZINGLY developer friendly (like what they did with Win7API's).
Been soooooo long waiting for this!!! ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 4 January 2010 12:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: ozsilverlight Digest, Vol 5, Issue 10 Send ozsilverlight mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ozsilverlight digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility (Scott Barnes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:35:39 +1100 From: Scott Barnes <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility To: ozSilverlight <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Imagine being on the team :) ... lol they have their pencils razor sharp and from what i've seen some of Microsoft best and brightest are working hard to fix it and fast. I only hope that the marketing for this product is a finely tuned machine, as technically it's going to do a lot but public awareness is really where Microsoft will need to dig and deep. Samsung, Nokia etc aren't going to sit there and trash Android / iPhone outloud via ads etc.. yet this fight needs to be had to remind people of the value proposition Windows Mobile has. Here in the US that fight is currently being fought by the carriers (and doing it really badly may i add as they now spun off into who has the best coverage, trying to deflect AT&T + iPHONE strangle hold) - so it's got to have a more uniform energy driven campaign behind it and needs to come in hard and fast by Microsoft. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility It's true the WM performance looks extremely poor when seen side by side with an iPhone. To consumers, the fact that WM is so much more flexible and taps into a huge resource of developers means squat. At least the MS uniform interface strategy (desktop;browser;device") seems to indicate they're moving in the right direction. I appreciate that they really need to get this right to succeed in the mobile space. It's just so damn frustrating that it's taken so long. Carl. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 4 January 2010 9:22 AM To: ozSilverlight <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility You may see some basics around MIX (depends how stable it gets between now and then) but it realistically is a bit off before you see a mature response to this problem. The whole ecosystem kind of is self collapsing thanks to the iPhone as its visibility and raising the UX bar has caused somewhat of a consumer focused panic in handset manufacturers (I'll be talking a bit about this in my Melbourne Codecamp Keynote piece). This in turn has placed added layers of pressure on Microsoft to come up with a timely response, given majority of the handset manufacturers are dependent on a 3rd party operating system like Windows Mobile. That being said, they are exploring how Android will go in terms of seeding a new vision of where mobile consumer devices can go, given the agility and flexibility of Android (that and being backed by Google) it can allow them to start customizing and making their own branded experience devices - like the iPhone has full control over today. Is it going t o gain traction, well it's in market now, so it's a little too early to predict the outcome at the moment and given Windows Mobile 7 is likely to be 1-2 years away before it reaches replenished saturation levels, it's really up for grabs at the moment. What does this mean? well Windows Mobile + Silverlight is really the last hail-mary, if Microsoft doesn't come out strong on this release and fumbles it like it historically does with most V1 releases, this could be a crucial crossroads for the company, and most are gossiping that this could cause SteveB to stand down from CEO should it fail - as it basically means Microsoft just handed Google yet another serious Marketshare as if Windows Mobile 7 doesn't exceed or meet the iPhone Consumer based expectations, it's really not something most device OEM builders can push with a straight face? You can't fool consumers around UX anymore. That's why I say, don't hold your breath and creating noise isn't likely to yield any already established results. If anything everyone in that kind of space inside Microsoft has this fear/panic expression plastered all over their faces, so this one's already got a hot button attached to it.. and i know before i left staff used to raise this a lot "WTF IS OUR MOBILE STORY" type rants in internal discussion lists. I honestly think SL4+ is the only saving grace for this market, should Microsoft head in another direction other than SL than its really a tortured fragmented story ahead. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel Madero Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:56 PM To: ozSilverlight Subject: Re: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility Yes it's a shame that nothing has come up. Check this http://live.visitmix.com/Sessions/CL01 I think it might be it SL4WM. I hope at least a public CTP will come out of Mix10. There's a good reason why they haven't push it forward. Apparently it wasn't performing well and they have been investing in some core components of the OS to take it to a decent level (or probably just waiting for processing power to double). The new Win CE is using XAML as its rendering engine, but it's still C++. This is at least a step in the good direction, whenever SL for WM comes up, it would be based on that. On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:33 AM, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: While we're making noise, can we please scream for Silverlight on Windows Mobile? I know it's coming in WM7, but MS said that about the last 2 releases of WM. It's highly frustrating that we have to invest in standard WM development when most of our code is going in the bin once Silverlight finally appears on WM. I love Microsoft, but this is beyond being fashionably late! Carl. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2010 12:54 PM To: ozSilverlight <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: RE: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility Your blogs or contact folks in Microsoft in general. More noise gets made, more people inside start to panic a little. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Miguel Madero Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:36 PM To: ozSilverlight Subject: Re: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility Where can we vote or make some noise to push this forward? On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Scott Barnes <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: heh i've had this email forwarded to me 3 times since you guys wrote this, as a few people inside Microsoft know my internal struggle to get this entire site deleted and redone (and are like "dude, you will just cry or laugh"). It's actually 1000th cut for me and was one of the major contributing reasons as to why I quit the Silverlight team was this site and the constant amount of incompetence I witnessed at its creation. It's doing us all absolutely no favors in both being informative and at the same time helping the friction associated with installing Silverlight and i highlighted this with analytics to back it to the teams. It's a known problem is my point yet 4 months still, nothing. This (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mossyblog/4238051115/sizes/l/) is a temporary redesign I did for the experience, but it was rejected due to ego/politics getting in the way - my last manager and I just didn't see eye to eye on the direction of what i had already established and was about to establish in terms of digital marketing for Silverlight (twitter, websites etc). There are really three modes of installation here for end users: * Officially Supported - Your Operating System/Device and Browser meets the required conditions for Silverlight. Please proceed. * Un-Officially Supported - Your Operating System and/or Browser aren't officially supported but we all kind of know it works (i.e. Chrome browser for example). * Technically not supported - Your device/browser just can't handle Silverlight. You can download the exe/dmg file direct if you like, but basically you're on your own (iPhone etc). It's actually quite a simplistic amount of code and Tim Heuer, Scott Hansleman and I worked on the code base I sent to the team before I left, so it should be an easy fix and was ready for release (had some testing gates to go through but they would of been a walk in the park). Anyway, i know ScottGu and few others have raised concerns over this page, and this is probably the 9th instance of this situation flaring up but still falling on deaf ears. I tried to get it changed when i was in the actual team that owns the problem and couldn't get anything done so i think leading up to SL4 most will have to wait until after MIX or around MIX before you see any movement here at the very least. This thread could spur things along, but doubtful. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Miguel Madero Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 6:17 AM To: ozSilverlight Subject: Re: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility I just tried opening a Silverlight 3.0 website on my Ubuntu machine. Apparently I already have an old version of Moonlight 2.0. The experience is embarassing to say the least. Wrong instructions, hideous looking website and the worst of all, the uninstall experience is awful. This is a glance of what your linux customers will experience: The typical Install experience. This might be customizable for your own site. According to the text there's suppose to be a "Click to Install" button. There's no button or link saying "Click to Install". There's something that doesn't look like a link but it's the link that after some redirect's took take me to "http://go-mono.com/moonlight/";. This looks much nicer. Something like what I would expect. Although it's really confusing that the Microsoft site doesn't mention moonlight, mono or Novell, but we could probably live with that (or I mean, our users might just decide to ignore that and install anyway assuming they're still on a Microsoft site or they also trust that other party). After that page. There's another with a direct link to the plugin and the installation takes 2 seconds, restarts the brower and restarts FF reopening all of the pages that I'd open. However, I wasn't redirected to my site and I had to manually navigate to the page I originally opened, this is critical, this means you potentially lost your user unless he's really keen on manually going back to the page he was looking. Once FF restarted, I navigated back to my site. I wasn't expecting it to work, I know Moonlight is only compatible with SL2. I was expecting some message saying that this application requires features not available on my platform or something meaningful, but no, big surprise. FF crashes on all the SL3 sites I've visited. This might be something specific to my installation (I hope). The good news is that for the SL2 sites (hard to found) seems to work just fine. Probably I'm underestimating Linux users and they are used to worst experiences, but, it's still not one that I'd choose for my users. I hope Microsoft puts some effort on doing a decent landing page and that Novell (or Microsoft) fixes the versioning issues. On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Miguel Madero <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I think that targets current Eclipse (mainly Java I think) developers that want to do some Silverlight for their front-end, but that's not for moonlight, that's for the .NET Silverlight Runtime. In this case I think of two options: *Use monodevelop, which I read has specific support for Moonlight & Silverlight * Visual Studio, but I'm not sure if you would have to recompile the same project using the mono compiler, but I'd expect that the same xap just works in mono without changes assuming you target SL 2 assemblies only. On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Ola Karlsson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: You might be able to use Eclipse 4 SL http://www.eclipse4sl.org/ >From their site: Version 1.0: October 28th , 2009 Features included in version 1.0 are: * Silverlight 2.0 support Roadmap towards version 2: general availability planned for spring 2010 We plan to release intermediate beta or Community Technology Preview (CTP) showing progress and seeking feedback on the following features: * Silverlight 3.0 support So it looks like you might be able to use that for SL 2 development.... On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Miguel Madero <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Also consider targetting SL2 :s In the moonlight site<http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/> they mention you can use the tools available (VS?) but they don't get into specifics. You can develop Silverlight/Moonlight applications using both the tools available on Windows or in Linux and MacOS you can use the MonoDevelop<http://monodevelop.com/> Integrated Development Environment. On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:44 AM, John OBrien <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Timely to see Moonlight2 released overnight and promise of Moonlight 3 in the latter half of next year: http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/moonlight-2-is-now-available/ Its seems to imply Silverlight 2 compatibility only and yet SL3 features. How do we target it? Current default Silverlight 3 experience seems to be the linux user ends up confused. There is some way to provide SL2 vs SL3 application on autodetect from memory, sounds like some experimentation is needed. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Friday, 18 December 2009 10:07 AM To: ozSilverlight Subject: Re: Guidance for Moonlight compatibility I'm also interested in this. > What version details do > we put on the plugin? Can we publish a Moonlight XAP and a Silverlight XAP > and autodetect? Ewww... makes it hard if you're trying to provide a consistant UX... or fall back to a lowest common denominator. 21st century browser wars. Moonlight support: 'cos MS isn't in control of this platform, there's no guarentee that Moonlight will ever match functionality to Silverlight, yes? _______________________________________________ ozsilverlight mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Miguel A. Madero Reyes www.miguelmadero.com<http://www.miguelmadero.com/> (blog) [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. 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