Kevin I guess this give more derailed insights of your position, hope it is okay to share here: https://c4ss.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SomeRevCarson.pdf
Orsan > On 7 aug. 2016, at 04:33, Kevin Carson <[email protected]> > wrote: > > In my opinion "reformism" and gradualism are two entirely different > things -- the difference being that the later envisons a transition to > a system that is fundamentally different, but simply sees the > transition as a medium- or long-term process, whereas the former wants > to stabilize and ameliorate the existing system of power. > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Michel Bauwens > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Örsan Şenalp <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> As for your reply, what is very striking that not the lack of clarity >>> of your opinions on Fabians and relation to Fabianism, but rather a >>> weak confirmation you have given only one thing find good in it; >>> namely guild socialism; or cooperative solidarity economy vision. I >>> would guess this means you believe in gradual change instead of >>> full-force attack at the heart of the machine; which kills billions of >>> people and destroy the planet; the main principle of the Fabians. >> >> >> Dear Orsan, >> >> it seems we are re-doing here the 250 year old battle between revoluton and >> reformism, and that your critique of Pat, and sometimes of me, is that we >> are reformists. >> >> Personally, I don't see myself as a reformism in the sense it was defined, >> >> but, I do consider this: >> >> * the record of revolution is abysmal, with at least 100 million death when >> the revolutionaries were in power (the soviet one, but the earlier french >> was almost as dramatic); and an untold number during the ongoing defeats of >> those that did not succeed >> >> * the record of social democracy in its golden age was extraordinary, at >> least for the western working class, but I would argue, if you look at >> national liberation, that was also a fundamental advance, not to mention >> civil, gender rights etc .. >> >> * but even the revolutionaries who were combatting reformism, were not >> against reforms >> >> * now, there is a lot of evidence of social unrest, there were social and >> political and electoral s shifts that brought progressives to power, but is >> there any evidence that global south workers for example are revolutionary >> .. I would argue, they are not, even as they fight radically for social and >> labor improvements >> >> People like Pat Conaty , and myself, want post-capitalist structural >> reforms, and a phase transition, but at the same time, we are not opposed to >> reforms and to any social advances that social movements can win >> >> we want full and real democratization, an end to extractive regimes and >> practices >> >> yet, you continuously paint us as enemies it seems, and use a sliding scale >> that always ends up with the enemies of the people >> >> it always seems that your real enemy is not the 1%, but those of the 99% who >> do not share your views .. >> >> I see pat conaty, john restakis and others in the network for a cooperative >> commonwealth and synergia, as people with a lifelong record of fighting for >> the betterment of their fellow humans >> >> they want reforms, but they are not reformists, >> >> Michel >> >> >> -- >> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org >> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> > > > > -- > Kevin Carson > Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory > Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org > > "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow > "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous > > Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto > http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com > Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com > > _______________________________________________ > P2P Foundation - Mailing list > > Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net > Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net > > Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by > making a donation. Thank you for your support. > https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation > > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making a donation. Thank you for your support. https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
