Hi, OK, I bit the big one and updated to SDK 4.0. I changed my projects to use the new "Palm OS Support" folder instead of the "Palm OS 3.5 Support" folder. Then I added: #define DO_NOT_ALLOW_ACCESS_TO_INTERNALS_OF_STRUCTS to the beginning of my C files to flush out the bad things I'm doing (which I knew about, but saw no option before). Soooooo, now if I'm doing things like: if(pMenu->attr.visible) . . . if(pMenu->numMenus <= 1) . . . : etc of course the compler now complains but I don't see PalmOSGlue access to the menu vars (or am I just blind???). Is there some step I'm missing here? Thanks, GB PS And following the same rules, why is the following considered OK? if(eventP->eType == frmLoadEvent) -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/