Hi All, Just to clarify that Ofcom will include the URI for the list of approved database as part of our regulations, so that this could be 'discovered' by WSDs. We are agnostic on how this discovery mechanism would be implemented in the WSD; either pre-programmed or through DNS server.
However, it's a prerequisite that the validity of the database that WSD wish to connect to would have to be checked by WSD every 24 hours through connection to Ofcom listing to confirm that it's still approved. Hope this helps the discussion. Best regards, Siew Yoon :: Siew Yoon Tan Technical Regulation Specialist Spectrum Policy Group Direct : +44 (0) 20 7981 3066 Mobile : +44 (0) 78 1132 6573 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> :: Ofcom Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk<http://www.ofcom.org.uk/> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Benjamin A. Rolfe Sent: 12 July 2012 20:24 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [paws] draft document for Discovery Thanks Andy, So in this case the is it expected the device knows the URI for Ofcom's list and should start there? -Ben All Just to highlight that Ofcom requires that the list of available databases (maintained by Ofcom) is consulted once every 24 hours (so that misbehaving database operators can be removed from the list and devices stop using their channel allocations). Ofcom doesn't permit a master device to have a pre-arrangement with a database (such as a pre-programmed URI), or at least, the validity of any pre-programmed URI has to be checked every 24 hours with Ofcom's listing. The discovery problem is similar to US, but two step through an intermediate listing. Regards Andy From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: 10 July 2012 22:44 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [paws] draft document for Discovery Hi All, It is simple. Vendors could support it forever. And if for example the roaming agreement becomes a preferred solution, the vendor could program one or more addresses into the device (SW update, device management, etc). In the use case & requirements document the assumption has been that a simple case of discovery is hard-coded addresses in the device. Best Regards, Scott From: "ext Rosen, Brian" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 17:17:46 -0400 To: "ext com>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: Scott Probasco <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [paws] draft document for Discovery That would work. This would happen every time the device booted. That could be a fair amount of traffic for a high volume manufacturer. They have to support this forever. It's simple. I wonder if the device mfg would agree to that? Brian On Jul 10, 2012, at 5:09 PM, Peter Stanforth wrote: on this topic a completely different approach would be for the device to call home, to the manufacturer, with the ability for the manufacturer to point it to the appropriate DB for that location. This works well, and simply if we assume the device has the relationship with the DB. If it is a user (Say network operator) then I would expect them to configure their devices to go where they desire them to go. On Jul 10, 2012, at 3:50 PM, "Rosen, Brian" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: When I do the discovery, I don't know which country I am in. I can't know enough to query the right DS unless we put country boundary polygons in the device. Of course, I forgot to add to this that if there is the U.S. model of competing DBs, then the whole discovery mechanism falls apart, and you need configuration, because if the device knows who its business relationship is with, it can know the URI. Brian On Jul 10, 2012, at 3:38 PM, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi Brian, Comments below: MSP-> Kind Regards, Scott From: "ext Rosen, Brian" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 17:27:31 -0400 To: Scott Probasco <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [paws] draft document for Discovery This re-invents LoST without the extensive mechanisms for self organizing databases. LoST has a query that sends location in, with a Service URN (which for this use would be "I want a WSDB for this location" and you get back (a list of) URIs. That's what you propose, without the service URN because you want a special location based discovery mechanism just for WSDBs. What you don't deal with is how a WSDB DS finds out about all other WSDB DSs. That's the LoST "Forest Guide". The FG works without a root, and allows cooperating LoST servers to refer queries to the right server. MSP->If each WSD vendor arranges a service level agreement with a WSDB DS (or provides their own WSDB DS) then it is not obvious to me why a WSDB DS would need to find out about other WSDB DSs. Each WSDB DS is independent. If vendor X intends their WSD to operate in Country Y, then WSDB DS used by vendor X must include appropriate Country Y mapping information (location to WSDB or WSDB listing server) in their WSDB DS. It's not really a great idea to bake a URI into a device. Who knows what will happen over the life of a device? MSP->Including an address in the device does not imply that the address cannot be changed if needed. SW updates, device management or similar can allow for changes if needed. I take your point, these changes should be exceptions rather than regular events. The existing LoST discovery mechanism is built for widespread deployment in ISPs. We may need something that works well without that. There aren't a lot of good mechanisms that really work well - you either have a root of some sort, or, as you propose, a starting seed. The root problem is who runs the root, and the starting seed problem is the lifetime of the seed. You note that the seed gets nothing out of the exchange - it doesn't get to serve the query, it only gets to refer to someone who does. MSP->It is not clear to me what business model would support a sophisticated infrastructure as described in the LoST Architecture & Framework RFC 5582. I actually think this is not an important problem to solve really well. The most common deployment model is going to be a tower and clients. The tower can be configured, and either the clients learn from the tower, or the tower handles the database query itself. Client discovery in that case could be the LoST discovery mechanism. We have to handle the self organizing case (say a MANET) where one or more devices have some other path to the Internet to get to the WSDB. They will need real discovery and may not have a cooperating ISP. While I really don't like configuration, it may be the only viable way to do it. MSP->Configuration is pragmatic and can be easily deployed Brian On Jul 9, 2012, at 5:04 PM, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hello All, Please find a link below to a draft submission for the Discovery process as described in the Use Cases & Requirements document. We are looking forward to your review and comments as well as discussion at IETF#84. Abstract: A white space master device needs to query a white space database and obtain information about available spectrum/channels prior to operation. White space databases which contain information about available spectrum/channels are associated with a regulatory domain. A white space master device needs to discover the relevant white space database(s) given its current location and in which regulatory domain that it is operating. The white space database discovery is the preliminary step that a white space master device has to perform. URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-probasco-paws-discovery-00.txt Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-probasco-paws-discovery-00 Kind Regards, Scott & Raj _______________________________________________ paws mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws _______________________________________________ paws mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws _______________________________________________ paws mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws _______________________________________________ paws mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paws ________________________________ ****************************************************************************************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use of the addressee only. 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