Thanks, Kevin! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 3:48 PM Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates
Hi Gary. ABR does yield a better quality file than CBR. With CBR, the music is crudely cut off at exactly the bit rate chosen. With ABR, the encoder keeps the bit rate around what you've chosen but it does this by taking spare capacity from parts of the music where it's not needed and adding it to parts of the music where it would benefit going slightly above the bit rate you've chosen. So, for example, if you choose an ABR rate of 192 kbps, with a track that has one minute of music needing only 160kbps and one minute needing 224kbps, your file would use exactly those bit rates because the average will be 192kbps. Now, if you'd chosen 192kbps for the same track using CBR, you'd have the first minute using 192kbps so you've wasted 32kbps for that minute that wasn't needed and then you'd have crudely chopped off 32kbps from the second minute. VBR is a completely different ball game. Whereas CBR and ABR are all about making sure you know how big your file is going to be and cutting the music accordingly, VBR is all about choosing a quality and leaving the file size to be quite unpredictable. VBR is the best way to encode music because it uses exactly what it needs to do a good job. The only compromise is what you choose as your level of quality. Hope this helps. Regards. Kevin E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:30 AM Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates And now here's another question for ya: If you use the VBR method, and you may use VBR/ABR, the ABR means average bit rate. If that's the case, does it stay with the average bit rate? If it does, then't it's no better than CBR method! Or is ABR actually better than just VBR, alone? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich De Steno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:05 PM Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates Sounds like only dogs would hear it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunshine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates ok, here is a question for all of you what would you think of a mp3 at the following specks 128 kbps 192000 khz 24 bits per sample? just wondering? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates the article below gives information on choosing the right bit rate for your audio. Choosing the Best Bit Rate for Your MP3 Files Bit Rate Matters Quite A Bit Digital audio files are NOT all created equal. Technical characteristics like bit rate, sample size, and sampling frequency can have a big impact on sound quality. One of the most common - and easily controllable - settings in the CD-ripping process is the bit rate. When you convert CD's to MP3's using a bit rate that is too low, high frequency content - cymbals for example - can take on a distorted, shimmering sound. Midrange content (like vocals) can also sound "squashed" or artificial. But just a little knowledge about the MP3 conversion process can help you pick the right bit rate to deliver great sound quality. CD Quality and Bit Rate Let's start from the top down in terms of quality. "CD quality" is 16 bits of pure high-energy audio at a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz. We will use "CD quality" as the benchmark. CD files are called WAV files (.wav) These don't use any compression or conversion from the original source - which is why they are so large and have such great sound. Remember though, that any MP3 converter is "lossy", meaning it is eliminating some information that can't be recovered. You will never have actual CD quality music on your MP3 player, but your ear probably won't know the difference. Some other acronyms to be aware of are MP3 and MPEG. The term MP3 is a shortened word for MPEG audio layer 3. MPEG stands for Motion Picture Experts Group. This is the organization that created the encoding process that takes large CD files and converts them into smaller packages of music to enjoy on-the-go. The MP3 encoding process throws out all of the redundant information in your music that your ear (hopefully) won't miss. It then packages it in a smaller and more convenient file, enabling you to hear basically CD quality music for about 1/12 of the size. A benefit of using MP3 files is that it allows you to control the Bit Rate. Bit rate tells us how fast the data in an audio file is sent through the converter into your storage device. It's akin to taking a hundreds of thousands of nano pictures of the audio information in one second. The most common bit rate is 128kbps (or 128,000 nano pictures of audio in one second). The higher the bit rate, the better the "resolution" or sound quality is compared to the original CD quality file. While downloading music, consider the bandwidth of your connection (i.e. Cable connection, DSL, dial up modem). Attempting to download a larger file will slow your Internet connection and may result in a fragmented audio file. MP3 files were created to combat the lack of bandwidth on the Internet. If you're still using dial up to download your music, stay away from higher quality conversion files (above 128kbs). Variable Bit Rate Thus far, we have been discussing constant bit rates, meaning that the bit rate stays the same throughout the song. There is a fairly new process of converting MP3 files called Variable Bit Rate (VBR). A VBR converter analyzes the file before converting it and decides what rate to convert and at what point in the song that it should change. With VBR, a denser file (one with a lot of instruments or sounds occurring simultaneously) will convert at a lower overall bit rate but sound just as good if it was converted at a higher rate. The result is consistent quality no matter what type of file is being converted and is great if you have a wide-ranging collection of music. With Constant Bit Rate (CBR), you will have consistent file sizes but possibly inconsistent quality depending on your music selections. Most new players support VBR but you should read the specs on your player and the software you are using before you start converting your entire library. How to Set the Bit Rate In order to determine how to set your bit rate, you will need to balance your need for hard drive space and sound quality with the type of music you will be listening to - only you can decide what works best. 128kbps is a common default converter, but for some people, it is not acceptable quality. The higher the bit rate, the better your music will sound, but you will cramp the space on your hard drive. If half of your library happens to be audio books, converting or downloading the audio at a high bit rate as opposed to a low bit rate will have very little effect on the quality, but will take up more space. The table below gives you some perspective on quality to size ratio. table with 4 columns and 6 rows Format Bit Rate Compression Ratio Compression Ratio Approx. File Size/Per Minute of Music WAV Uncompressed 1:1 10 Megabytes (MB) MP3 160 kbps 9:1 1.5 MB MP3 128 kbps 11:1 1 MB MP3 96kbs 15:1 700K MP3 64kbs 22:1 400K table end There are roughly 1,000 kilobytes (kB) in 1 megabyte (MB), and 1,000 megabytes in 1 gigabyte (GB). Assuming a fixed bit rate of 128 kbps and 4 minutes per song, 250 songs would take up about 1 gigabyte of space. This is a good equation to use when taking a look at your entire music collection to determine changing your bit rates or upgrading your music player. There are hundreds of MP3 software players out there. If you search in the preferences or options section, you'll most likely come across converting or an importing tab. In Apple's iTunesÓ on a PC it is located In Edit/Preferences/Advanced Tab/Importing Tab, and in iTunes > Preferences > Advanced > Importing on the Mac. Now choose your encoder. If you choose "MP3 encoder" in the "Import Using" Field, it will let you choose a fixed rate from 16kbps to 320kbps by clicking the "Custom" option in the Setting Field. Your file will then be converted to the popular MP3 format. In the custom screen you can also choose your fixed bit rate or check the VBR box to make it a variable bit rate converter. If you choose VBR you can then change the spectrum of quality that the VBR converter will use from Lowest to Highest. Please note that these conversion settings do not apply to music downloaded from Apple's iTunesÓ, just music that you import from your own CD collection. You may also notice other converter options in the encoder tab like Apple Lossless, AAC MP4 and AIFF. These are just more options for converting your music to an MP3 like file. A format other than MP3 may not play on your player. Apple lossless, AAC, MP4 and AIFF formats are supported by Apple products but may not be supported by other manufacturers' players or software. If you are not sure if your player supports these file formats, stick with converting to MP3 files. For more info on AAC and AIFF files please click here. Hear for Yourself The test is to convert a few songs at different bit rates. Then listen carefully, and see what differences you notice between the different versions of the same song. Your ears will tell you what really matters. Of course, the type of earphones you use can also make a huge difference in the way you hear your music. Shure's goal is to create products that accurately capture or reproduce the sounds the way the artists intend them to sound. Many people who make the move to using higher quality earphones, such as the Shure E Series line , begin to download their music at higher bit rates because you will notice the defects and nuances that were not apparent before. Experiment with bit rates and songs to experience the difference Shure earphones ****************************** Let a smile be your lantern of joy robert Doc Wright http://www.wrightplaceinc.net skype: talmidim msn [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:51 AM Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates I thought that since MP3 is a smaller file, that maybe you would lose more highs than lows. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates > Absolutely right... You'd never use less than a 44.1khz sampling rate for > music. The sampling rate tells you how many times you're going to sample > the data per second. The bit rate tells you how many bits will be used in > each one second sample. So, the higher the sampling rate and the bit rate > then the better the quality. > > Some nice explanations to be had at: > http://www.mp3developments.com/article6.php > > Regards. > > Kevin > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich De Steno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:03 PM > Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates > > >> But is it not true that high bit rate and low frequency will degrade >> sound >> quality just as much? Compare a music file of let's say 192 KBS and 22 >> KHz >> with the same music at 64 KBS and 44.1 KHz. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 2:46 PM >> Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates >> >> >>> Hi Chris. >>> >>> The sampling rate of 44.1 khz does not mean the music is CD quality. >>> The >>> bit rate will determine the frequency response of the music which is the >>> real measure of quality. >>> >>> So, a bit rate of 128kbps will yield a frequency range that is much more >>> limited than 320 kbps which means less low end and high treble >>> frequency. >>> Less dynamic frequency range, less quality... >>> >>> There was a great resource which gave a table of frequency range against >>> bit >>> rates but unfortunately I can't find it just yet. >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>> Kevin >>> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Skarstad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: mp3 bit rates >>> >>> >>>> Actually, most mp3s that are at either 128k, 160k, and 192k and up to >>>> 320k, usually have a sampling rate of 44100 KHZ. >>>> That's cd quality. >>>> >>>> >>>> At 12:32 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote: >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>Does anyone have any info on the range of mp3s at different bit >>>>>rates? For example is an mp3 at 192 30 Hz to 18 kHz? I heard mp3s >>>>>at 128 only go up to 16 k, is that true? >>>>>THANKS! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Gian Pedulla >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>>Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>>http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>> >>>>>To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>__________ NOD32 2082 (20070226) Information __________ >>>>> >>>>>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>>>>http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >> http://www.pc-audio.org >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > > Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > http://www.pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. 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