On Jul 1, 2010, at 12:33 PM, dmotd wrote:
hi hans,
okay, i still have no real idea what you are talking about
here? i get the makefile template, but how exactly does this
relate to a buildsystem, the examples that use the template
are still called by the centralised makefile?
yes, check ext13 externals/Makefile for example.
thomas maintains his own buildsystem and as much as its
apparently stumped a bunch of people in the past, it is
designed for cross platform AND max/msp. to redesign an
entire build system to fit a template, for sake of maintaining
some design rules seems a little over the top, that's why i
decided to simply wrap it. besides, the flext layer has enough
complexity to require a decent autoconf first, and if recent
threads are correct, there's no libdir based autoconf
template.
A libdir autoconf template would be awesome to have though. Building
C or C++ objects for Pd isn't hard. What about flext makes things so
complicated? In the process of making that template Makefile, I
realized that autotools is really rarely needed for externals. Only
really when there are a lot of library dependencies.
the thing that has me confused is this notion of packaging?
if pd-X is going to disolve into a system of separated libs
(libdirs?) called by a virtual package 'pd-X', and thus
'debianize' the entire system, then i support that - however
there must be some wrapper script that does the job that
pd-X currently does? i understand that the template is
designed to make that job simpler, by making the build
assumptions the responsibility of each lib and creating a
libdir path, but how does this actually spawn packages?
what i like about pd-X is that it unifies a lot of extras
and provides a neat wrapper for the build, so i'm assuming
that your direction will be providing scripts to wrap
certain build environments (osx/win/fed/deb/ubu/etc). have
you got examples of how this next generation of build
scripts will look with the makefile-template, or will the
current centralised system slowly morph into the desired
endpoint? i am a little concerned that a 'one size fits all'
may not fit all...
The core idea is to avoid one-size-fits-all by decentralizing the
libraries. If libraries are really easy to make, distribute and
install, then there isn't a strong need to have all the libraries
included in Pd-extended itself. People can maintain their libraries
entirely separately, removing the unavoidable roadblocks that happen
when things get centralized.
For Pd-extended 0.43, I think we should be removing a bunch of
libraries that are not really used or maintained and make them
separately distributed. You can see some idea of the plans here:
http://puredata.info/dev/NextRelease
That said, there is value to having a default set of libraries that
you know will always be included with Pd-extended. I think to get to
that point, libraries need to be very stable both in terms of their
interface/features and their bugginess. Think of python libraries, or
ruby, etc.
.hc
anyway, without some guidelines, i'm not sure i will ever
understand what you have in mind, and what is acceptable
practice. i'm just wanting to contribute something that's
been missing from the pd-x object pool, without getting too
caught up in some fundamental change of practice.
best,
dmotd
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The idea is to have all libraries have their own standalone build
systems that do not rely on the packages/Makefile.buildlayout stuff.
That's the idea with the Makefile/library template.
I think the best plan for flext would be to make a version of the
template Makefile that works for C++/flext. Then that Makefile can
easily be used for Debian/Ubuntu/RPM/etc. packaging.
http://puredata.info/docs/developer/MakefileTemplate
I could see including the flext library itself in Pd-extended, that
is if it is not changing much. But the externals itself should
start out separately distributed libdirs IMHO.
.hc
On Jun 28, 2010, at 9:50 PM, dmotd wrote:
hi hans,
the work i've done slots straight into the existing
externals/Makefile structure and currently builds fine on
linux, it uses thomas' build system and until a better
autoconf alternative is created, this is by far the easiest
(and has been working quite well for years). as such this a
multi-class single lib system.
i have followed the libdir rules, with help-files
abstraction (and in py/ext case scriptets) in each libs own
dir, and other stuff in examples. the actual flext headers
and libs get installed in their own $prefix/include
$prefix/lib.
my intention is to get the flext externals into the nightly
autobuid. i'm not sure what you mean by 'distribuited as
stand-alone', if this is a reference to your plan to split
supported pd-extended libs into individual packages, then
i'll need to know more about what scripts you have at your
disposal and your release schedule for this new packaging
system.
i've attached a diff of my working makefile, which will need
to be tested against other platforms and linux
distributions. currently the following libs build and
install correctly: absattr, pool, py, xsample (i am waitinng
on some fixes up stream for clk and vasp)
sorry for not emailing earlier, i've had little time to work
on this stuff and just ran with the momentum with the small
time i have had.
cheers,
dmotd
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hey, I just saw you are working flext stuff, lots of people will
appreciate that. I don't know your plan, but I wanted to save you
some effort. At this point, I think that the flext stuff should be
distributed as standalone libraries, rather than integrated with
Pd-
extended. That makes it easier to package too, for things like
archlinux, Debian, Fedora, etc.
Also, if you are starting in on packaging things for archlinux,
check out the externals/template. If you can make a template
archlinux packaging file for that, then it'll be really easy to
make
packages for all of the libraries that use that template:
http://puredata.info/docs/developer/MakefileTemplate
.hc
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<flext.diff>
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