OK .... that assuages most of my doubts. I hadn't realized Pd extended has separate preferences; this is excellent news (preferences carrying over between the 2 was a major headache for me at one point in the past :)
I'd still suggest that, if you wnt to not have "startup lib loading" in the GUI it should get cleaned out of the preferences too - but I suspect you've already thought of that. cheers Miller On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 02:37:32PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > Hey Miller, > > If I follow what you are saying, that you can create preferences in the > Pd-vanilla preferences GUI that Pd-extended will then load, that is no > longer true. Pd-extended has a different preferences file from > Pd-vanilla (~/.pdextended, ~/Library/Pd/org.puredata.pdextended.plist, > etc). > > It is a bit confusing that Pd-extended is loading libraries globally at > startup, you can see those in the debug output in the Pd window. > Ultimately, I think Pd-extended should not load any libraries by > default. That will be a big transition that will take more prep work, > so I think we should defer that to a later release. > > .hc > > On Tue, 2011-09-20 at 11:16 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: > > I'm not sure this really happens but... if you add startup loads to > > preferences through Pd venilla, then if they don't load or crash for > > Pd extended, this would be made more confusing if the libraries weren't > > visible from a dialog somewhere. > > > > On the other hand, you could fix fix Pd extended actually to > > ignore "lib" preferences altogether (although respect them on the > > command line for 'experts' -- then it would mke sense to get rid of > > the dialog and perhaps people would be very grateful for the simplification. > > > > cheers > > Miller > > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:58:47AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > > > > Please give an example of how this would make this more confusing. My > > > experience is the exact opposite and it is exactly this problem that > > > leads me to want to remove those preferences. The are a big source of > > > confusion and problems, and most Pd-extended users do not use them. I > > > am not proposing removing them from Pd-vanilla, only Pd-extended. I > > > think globally loading libraries is a broken idea. > > > > > > If you remember in the days before Pd-extended, patches that relied on > > > external libraries were mostly unsharable. It could take a long time to > > > track down all the dependencies, etc. and you couldn't be sure which > > > [wrap], [split], [prepend], [scale], etc. the patch needed. Having the > > > configuration in the patch means at worst you know what you need to get > > > it running. > > > > > > At this point I've taught Pd to 10 year olds, high school kids, college > > > kids, masters students, and all sorts of people in workshops, college > > > courses, and patching circles. I also answer a lot of questions on > > > email, on forums, and on IRC. It is from this experience that I am > > > coming from on this issue. I have no desire to control people, I do > > > have a strong desire to make Pd-extended very user friendly to newbies > > > and a excellent editing experience for advanced users. > > > > > > And those that like the Pd-vanilla way are welcome to use it, > > > Pd-extended will remain compatible with patches from Pd-vanilla as long > > > as I work on it. Of course, it is not possible to maintain 100% > > > compatibility when going from Pd-extended to Pd-vanilla since extended > > > includes many more objects. There is also pd-l2ork, desiredata, etc. > > > for those who want different approaches. > > > > > > .hc > > > > > > On Tue, 2011-09-20 at 13:02 +0100, Andy Farnell wrote: > > > > > > > > Whenever I see the words "this would _make_ people"... > > > > alarm bells start ringing for me. > > > > > > > > Yes, the proposed behaviour is perfectly correct, logical, > > > > and consistent. And utterly the wrong thing to do IMHO. > > > > > > > > It would frighten off newcomers and disorientate students. > > > > > > > > It's why we create the cushion of fairy stories > > > > for kids, to soften the harsh realities of the > > > > _actual_ world. Later on you learn that there isn't > > > > a magic library fairy that loads everything, but it > > > > helps you cope with the first steps. > > > > > > > > If anybody made PD that broken out of the box it > > > > would require lots of work to fix in order to make > > > > it fit to teach with again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2011-09-19 19:32, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Miller, > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think this would make switching between vanilla and > > > > > > extended > > > > > > easier because it would make people use [import] or [declare] to > > > > > > load > > > > > > libs, then when using vanilla, you'll know which libraries the patch > > > > > > needs. Can you think of examples where it would make things more > > > > > > difficult? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pd-dev mailing list > > > Pd-dev@iem.at > > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-dev mailing list > Pd-dev@iem.at > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev _______________________________________________ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev