So if we wanted to improve the GUI we would have to drop tcl/tk all together or make it messy and heavy?
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >________________________________ > > > From: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <lem...@gmail.com> > >To: Pierre-Olivier Boulant <po.boul...@free.fr> > >Cc: pd-list <pd-list@iem.at> > >Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:33 PM > >Subject: Re: [PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released > > > > > >The GUI is beautiful!!!!! That's Apache Flex? I don't think we can maket > tcl/tk look like that on PD, can we? > > > It's not that you can't do that in tk, it's just that tk will get in the > way of you doing that at nearly > every turn. For example, here's the code you'd need to draw a gradient on > a canvas: > > http://wiki.tcl.tk/6100 > > Buttons would have to be gifs or bitmaps created in some other program (or > on the fly with some > hacky code similar to the gradient stuff), unless you use tcl/tk 8.6 in > which case you could use > pngs. You might be able to use the half-implemented tk theming engine to > get a scrollbar that > looks like the one in Integra, but you'd probably end up using pngs or > something for the items in > the Module Library, or else pull your hair out trying to figure out how to > get the theme to look > like that on all platforms when all platforms do _not_ have the same > building blocks for their > widgets. For Pd'ers who like the stripped down, 1990s look it is > serendipitous, because that is > all they can get without someone doing an inordinate amount of work to > make it > look any other way. (Just find a gui made with tk that looks anything > like Integra.) > > But I do have a question about: > > > http://www.integralive.org/ > > Specifically, the png accompanying "Turnkey Audio Processing"-- > specifically the outputs > of GranularDelay1 going to the inputs of StereoReverb1. Look quickly then > answer the > question: > Does out1 connect to in1 or in2? > > I'm not against bezier curves, but the GUI engine must handle them with > care or they'll cause > unnecessary problems. > > > Bezier curves make it more difficult for the user to anticipate ambiguous > overlaps with cords. > The user makes connections which are obvious in his/her mind as well as > obvious when they do > the physical work with the mouse of connecting each outlet to each inlet. > (Btw, the user's > mouse makes a trip between outlet and inlet that is a straight line, so > the physical action > no longer correlates with the drawn representation.) Then the mind tricks > him/her into thinking that the GUI diagram must be as clear as the mental > diagram because > all the steps leading up to the final result were clear. (This is still a > problem in Pd, but slightly less > so because the user is more likely to guess correctly what a straight line > between a and b looks > like, and they can consequently anticipate ambiguous overlaps and attempt > to avoid them before > making them.) Then the user goes and teaches a class, or runs an errand, > and comes back to the patch > but the mental picture is now gone. So he/she recreates the mental image > from the GUI image, > which is ambiguous, which requires either more work to remember the "real" > connection or > actually manipulating the GUI cord with the mouse to see what really > connects to what. Requiring > either type of work breaks with the philosophy of being able to deduce > what the patch does simply > by looking at it. (Btw, I'm still not sure whether your cords overlap or > not.) > > > So cords should try to repel each other in such a situation, or at least > color themselves differently > when they do in fact overlap. Otherwise you end up with the equivalent of > a scheme IDE that > sometimes matches a closing parenthesis with two "candidate" opening > parentheses but doesn't > indicate which is the actual match. Nobody would tolerate such an > ambiguity in a text-based > langauge. We shouldn't in GUIs, either. > > -Jonathan > > > > > > > > > > > >On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Pierre-Olivier Boulant < > po.boul...@free.fr> wrote: > > > >No problem about the report. :) > >> > >>I'm here if you need further testing too. Look me up on IRC freenode > #dataflow. I'm "pob" over there. > >> > >>For what it's worth, the only interaction I have with the GUI is when > closing. I can actually click on the buttons of the "save" pop up window. > >> > >>Cheers > >>Pierre-Olivier > >> > >> > >> > >>On 18/01/2013 17:15, Jamie Bullock wrote: > >> > >>On 18 Jan 2013, at 15:48, Pierre-Olivier Boulant <po.boul...@free.fr> > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>Hi, > >>>> > >>>>It looks very nice indeed. > >>>> > >>>>Running the Windows version, I have a problem with the mouse. > >>>>I can't interact at all with the GUI. I can click on the menu bar > (File Edit View etc.), this much works but that's it. The GUI does not > respond to any clicks. > >>>> > >>>>Windows 7, 64bit OS. > >>>> > >>>I'm sorry to hear that. I must admit, we haven't yet tested on 64-bit > Windows, so it's possibly to do with that. > >>> > >>>I hope you don't mind but I've added your report to the UserVoice forum: > >>> > >>> > http://integralive.uservoice.com/forums/58883-general/suggestions/3565091-mouse-interaction-not-working-on-64-bit-windows > >>> > >>>If you "vote" for the issue, you will get an automatic notification > when it is resolved. > >>> > >>>Jamie > >>> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > >>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > >UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > >
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