Filippo, you should put it up on Github. I can help if you need it... -- Tony Hillerson
On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 22:07 PM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: > Send Pd-list mailing list submissions to > pd-list@iem.at (mailto:pd-list@iem.at) > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pd-list-requ...@iem.at (mailto:pd-list-requ...@iem.at) > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pd-list-ow...@iem.at (mailto:pd-list-ow...@iem.at) > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Pd-list digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Game Audio abstractions- how to publish? (Joe White) > 2. Re: Wich licence? (Mario Mey) > 3. Re: libpd separating gui from core (Rich E) > 4. Re: libpd separating gui from core (Jonathan Wilkes) > 5. Re: libpd separating gui from core (Jonathan Wilkes) > > Forwarded message: > > From: Joe White <white.j...@gmail.com> > > To: Filippo Beck Peccoz <m...@fbpsound.com> > > Cc: PD list <pd-list@iem.at> > > Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 7:25:45 > > Subject: Re: [PD] Game Audio abstractions- how to publish? > > > > Nice one Filippo! Thanks for sharing > > > > Cheers, > > Joe > > > > > > > > On 16 February 2014 21:31, Filippo Beck Peccoz <m...@fbpsound.com > > (mailto:m...@fbpsound.com)> wrote: > > > Hello list, > > > > > > I've collected and cleaned up a few patches that I've been using a lot > > > while making game audio with PD (mainly for Android, using libpd, Unity > > > and Kalimba) and wanted to make them available to everyone. > > > Giving a tiny bit back since I've received so much help and advice from > > > the PD community! > > > > > > I'm mainly trying to cover what a PD beginner/game audio composer would > > > need in order to start building a PD-based audio engine for a video game. > > > Threw in some mixer abstractions, some stuff for interactive music, a > > > state-based drum machine and so on. > > > > > > As I said it's super basic, but it might just be less intimidating for > > > someone who's just interested in the game audio potential of PD to have > > > these basic blocks handy. > > > > > > Let me know if there is anything that can/should/must be improved in > > > order for it to be of any use! I'd like to make help patches for the > > > abstraction as well, but am not sure if they really need them since most > > > of them are very simple. What do you think? > > > > > > https://fbpserver.dyndns.org/pydio/data/public/5b1c5c.php > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Filippo > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pd-list@iem.at (mailto:Pd-list@iem.at) mailing list > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Follow me on Twitter @diplojocus > Forwarded message: > > From: Mario Mey <mario...@gmail.com> > > To: pd-list@iem.at > > Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 12:54:03 > > Subject: Re: [PD] Wich licence? > > > > Right, I put GPL license, I think it is the best for this project. I > > uploaded it here: > > > > http://puredata.hurleur.com/viewtopic.php?pid=40358#p40358 > > > > You can see MEH-SYSTEM on stage and with full success, here: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckKg_rS5ezQ > > > > Thanks everybody! > > > > > > > > On 16/02/14 02:03, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > On 02/15/2014 03:14 PM, olm-e wrote: > > > > On 15/02/14 20:53, pd-list-requ...@iem.at > > > > (mailto:pd-list-requ...@iem.at) wrote: > > > > > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 16:52:58 -0300 > > > > > From: Mario Mey <mario...@gmail.com (mailto:mario...@gmail.com)> > > > > > Subject: Re: [PD] Wich licence? > > > > > To: pd-list@iem.at (mailto:pd-list@iem.at) > > > > > Message-ID: <52ffc59a.4030...@gmail.com > > > > > (mailto:52ffc59a.4030...@gmail.com)> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > > > > > > > On 14/02/14 15:45, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > > > > > How would that be any different than spyware? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Jonathan > > > > > Haha! Good point! > > > > > > > > > > Thanks everybody for the answers. I took a look to Matt Davey's DIY2 > > > > > effects and he put no license txt file on its folder. Maelstorm mmb > > > > > libraries have no license too... > > > > > > > > > > My patch is for everyone who wants to use it or learn with it. If > > > > > someone finally uses MEH-SYSTEM or a modified version of it in stage > > > > > or > > > > > for a video or whatever... I "would like" to know it... only that! > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I leave it as is. Saying nothing about license... > > > > > > Skim the Wikipedia pages for GPL and 3-clause BSD, choose the one you > > > prefer, and then you're done. > > > > > > Otherwise you create potential work for anyone who may have a use for > > > your software to figure out what the terms of use and distribution > > > are. It's probably not a big deal for a particular piece of software, > > > and there are plenty of Pd patches out there that don't specify > > > anything. But when you take, say, everything that exists on Github, > > > the lack of licenses probably leads to busywork that eats up > > > measurable amounts of time and effort. > > > > > > -Jonathan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Hello, > > > > having no licence is probably not a good idea, as it's like enforcing > > > > the default copyright rules that basically give no rights at all ... > > > > (lots of code are practically not legaly usable on github for that > > > > reason f.ex.) > > > > the best would be IMHO to put it in (L)GPL and gently ask to downloaders > > > > to report use as a courtesy on the download page... > > > > have a good day, > > > > > > > > Ol. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Pd-list@iem.at (mailto:Pd-list@iem.at) mailing list > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pd-list@iem.at (mailto:Pd-list@iem.at) mailing list > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > Forwarded message: > > From: Rich E <reakina...@gmail.com> > > To: Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com> > > Cc: pd-list@iem.at List <pd-list@iem.at> > > Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 21:11:41 > > Subject: Re: [PD] libpd separating gui from core > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com > > (mailto:danomat...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > Ah wait, duh. Of course the graph needs to know positioning, that's how > > > it determines execution order or independent blocks of objects right? > > > > > > On Jan 13, 2014, at 5:14 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com > > > (mailto:danomat...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > > Does the dsp graph rely on positioning? I thought only via connections. > > > > I'd imagine the gui wrapper should only worry about positioning and > > > > simply update those changes when saving. > > > > > > IMO a separation between GUI and core could/would include position, e.g. > > objects have their connections mapped by an index, GUI assigns the index to > > the object based on position. This would allow for some much more > > sophisticated GUI's, such as 3d, or even a more human-readable text version > > (json has been mentioned). > > > > > > cheers, > > Rich > > > Forwarded message: > > From: Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com> > > To: pd-list@iem.at > > Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 21:23:01 > > Subject: Re: [PD] libpd separating gui from core > > > > On 02/18/2014 04:00 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > > > On 2014-02-17 22:42, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > > No sane person is going to do incremental work without a plan on > > > > GUI software in 2014 that only has a single undo. > > > > > > > > > > luckily the work on the GUI will most likely happen in git, which > > > gives you infinite undo. > > > > > > > > > The question is whether a highly capable dev who isn't already > > entrenched in Pd development would see participation as worthwhile or a > > waste of time. > > > > What I'm saying is that without a clear plan, no sane developer is going > > to undertake the work of adding infinite undo, various GUI improvements, > > or anything else that can't ship as an external. > > > > But yes, technically you can use Git to do yet another GUI rewrite if > > you wish. > > > > -Jonathan > > > > > > > > fmasdr > > > IOhannes > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > Version: GnuPG v1 > > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > > > > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJTAyE4AAoJELZQGcR/ejb4p20P/0v4ZnEhRhzuLBzl3Jr8bGRC > > > FSp04pTFlgdIqYPvJJooQA2vWJPHCOcHNPI7u8kDJk3tr+1p1EQ41apK6qFw/xU5 > > > E1093htLiZojq2OCMMO9ZOYbm0DXZZHRmo6nMcG2GXceqCSNA3OMw7p4MRGyVJB1 > > > tS/gyckHowInGDif+3eYKSD6iTZcBFpa/QahaT9kZzTk6HQ4hRtoro5OZ/z97nj6 > > > ILJsDv0xK01I4MF1s9OUsMdVp6itTCI9irHYOMr1IeNbhQMaZrT1z2HtqG9q8NZs > > > Q4p6uKGtGgqIZU5noCrmLnxVde0HlirpxSIDzq+FHJ4b9dQk9pJSI+zKTE8hCs1O > > > sCUFZNi2udd9NwkaAqs1/2msf15WO+GmguMZXzaOiOxcx9FKrVE03IATZ4vqLNCd > > > AucU9dxohcYrqPuzzBhfxmmYk6aLwPaZpamezTeBNCni0qn25X5ZwDWY6YHnd5fO > > > Ck1yvhWKO0g5jVH2Tx4iAgnceKVqe++q5q+XnR8goFPFvxPC3THCGoGaIx4FSgea > > > Zcfy3VymCWByyG57K2yV2R+wr3qwK8TDligtM0XoUB+a0caYr6uq5qMnOTzOJpIt > > > GpwrWerw1957a/ccxpkNpofh4HPosg0oeYRajc1mELY07bLcahgMaIGxIevxvub2 > > > 00RL1CEc36ySA5xLzcsd > > > =M/8o > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pd-list@iem.at (mailto:Pd-list@iem.at) mailing list > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > Forwarded message: > > From: Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com> > > To: Rich E <reakina...@gmail.com>, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com> > > Cc: pd-list@iem.at List <pd-list@iem.at> > > Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 22:07:20 > > Subject: Re: [PD] libpd separating gui from core > > > > On 02/18/2014 11:11 PM, Rich E wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com > > > (mailto:danomat...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > > Ah wait, duh. Of course the graph needs to know positioning, that's how > > > > it determines execution order or independent blocks of objects right? > > > > > > > > On Jan 13, 2014, at 5:14 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com > > > > (mailto:danomat...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > > > Does the dsp graph rely on positioning? I thought only via > > > > > connections. I'd imagine the gui wrapper should only worry about > > > > > positioning and simply update those changes when saving. > > > > > > > > > IMO a separation between GUI and core could/would include position, e.g. > > > objects have their connections mapped by an index, GUI assigns the index > > > to the object based on position. This would allow for some much more > > > sophisticated GUI's, such as 3d, or even a more human-readable text > > > version (json has been mentioned). > > You run into problems when you want to get decent GUI interaction _and_ > > expect to deliver audio to the soundcard in realtime. > > > > Actually even in 2d without audio the problems manifest themselves pretty > > quickly. For example: open the svg tiger inside Inkscape and move it > > around. Notice the clever trick-- the image is broken into tiles and moved > > starting with the pieces closest to the mouse. Since the user's eye > > focuses on the mouse pointer, the interaction looks snappy even though it > > may take half a second or more to finish moving the tile furthest from the > > pointer. > > > > When you add realtime audio the options are either to err on the side of > > sluggishness or to be responsive and risk dropouts. If you want it to be > > responsive in both video and audio then you have to start doing some > > serious optimizations based on what you think the user cases are for the > > software. For example, the Inkscape trick is perfect for creating and > > manipulating vector graphics, but it would be terrible for a 2d animation > > environment where you'd presumably want the tiger to move as a single unit. > > > > However, many of Pd's current problems don't have a lot to do with that. > > Tk is pretty good at being sluggish and avoiding dropouts when it doesn't > > have idle time to do graphics updates. In fact I can move around an svg > > tiger on a canvas without interrupting the "test audio" patch. Most > > dropouts related to the GUI have to do with what amounts to a DDOS attack > > from the core to the GUI. When you flood tcl with data from the socket it > > can't really do anything else but spend time receiving it. When you add > > that to whatever Pd core is doing to generate all those messages in the > > first place, you probably won't have any time left over for delivering > > audio. > > > > Other toolkits are certainly more efficient than Tk. But if you're > > dragging an antialiased wire from the top left of the window to the > > bottom-right, the toolkit needs time to do those redraws. > > > > Finally, I'm not really sure how Open-GL and hardware acceleration plays > > into all this. For example, Qt Graphics View docs have a note about > > accelerated graphics possibly adding a performance hit and possibly more > > latency, but it's only in the context of hardware that doesn't do floating > > point computations efficiently. I played around with Kivy a bit, which is > > hardware accelerated but honestly didn't see much of an improvement in cpu > > usage over comparable stuff in Tkpath. > > > > -Jonathan > > > > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > Rich > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list mailing list > Pd-list@iem.at (mailto:Pd-list@iem.at) > to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >
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