I'd actually like to know better the issues behind extended, and why is it so hard to just update it to the newer vanilla version and let people manage/update the libraries/externals...
Why, for instance, can't I update a library like cyclone and release a new updated version of extended (let it be 0.43) with the updated objects? What's the deal? cheers 2015-06-05 20:24 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com>: > I'm actually ok with lots of mess, check my apartment. > > What actually bums me out is that the maintenance is dead, and there's no > sign anything is gonna happen. Last time someone discussed it was 6 months > ago and it just went silent... > > I'd really like to spend a lot of personal effort in this, Pd is a very > important part of my work and I'd love to pay it back, but unfortunately > I'm no programmer. I'll do what I can, I'll manage, I'll test it, I'll try > to clean the mess, I'll report bugs and organize/manage the project. I'll > even study and start programming what I can. Count me in, but without an > actual community, there's no deal. > > I just collaborated with supercollider, I helped in a bug report, I > revised and rewrote the help of 3 objects, and it went nice and smoothly > like a charm. They seem to have a nice community working on out there, we > don't. It seems extended was all concentrated in Hans and not a community. > > cheers > > > 2015-06-05 18:52 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli <reduz...@gmail.com>: > >> On Fre, 2015-06-05 at 14:32 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: >> > > I couldn't find a [range] object in Pd-extended. >> > >> > >> > I have it in 0.42, maybe yours is 0.43 - it's located in flatspace, >> > but it doesn't even have a help file... >> >> Wow, you're missing so much new stuff... (and yes, I was checking >> 0.43-extended) >> >> > Well, this all makes me say how I find Pd-extended to be very messy, >> > with many redundanct objects, not to mention buggy or poorly >> > documented (many have no help whatsoever). As I dig further, I just >> > find more of all this... I know this directs this thread to another >> > discussion, but I'd really hope for the update and maintenance active >> > again, and that I could help cleaning some stuff up. >> >> I _believe_ Pd-extended was meant to be collection of as much software >> as was/is available for Pd. It respected the libraries (I'm sure this is >> argued by some, regarding multi-object libs vs. single-object externals) >> and put it into namespaces so that the user can decide what to use and >> what not. One could also say it deferred the burden to deal with the >> mess on the user. But it made much of the existing Pd ecosystem >> available to the masses - which I consider a huge achievement - and you >> can more or less assume that a patch made on platform Y will work the >> same on platform X with the same version of Pd-extended. >> >> I think tiding it all up is again a huge task. It's all free software, >> so anyone could do it. Having followed this list for a few years, I >> don't believe in the "authoritative" collection of Pd externals and >> abstraction anymore. People are using software in different ways for >> different purposes, and one can observe that many create their own nice >> tidied-up unified collections of abstractions (mtl, rjlib, netpd, etc.) >> and none of them gained so much traction that they would be used by a >> majority of the Pd users. I even think that trying it would be a lost >> game and would end up with endless mailing list debates. >> >> Retrospectively, it looks like maintaining something like Pd-extended is >> a too complex task to be distributed among many and too much for a >> single person (Pd-L2ork being the counter example). I sense agreement on >> the notion that effort is better spent on making separate libraries >> easily accessible/distributable. People willing to help could focus on >> the external they have the most interest in. It already started in >> Debian, where IOhannes, Hans (mainly) and me (to some lesser degree) >> worked on creating proper Debian packages of a lot of externals. Similar >> could be done for other platforms, too. Pd-extended could be the >> collection of those packages that are available on all major platforms >> (or whatever). >> >> Personally, I suffer most from the fact, that Pd-extended is a >> separately maintained Pd with patches on one hand and a collection of >> externals on the other. If it would be simply a Pd with a collection of >> externals, it would be much simpler to just update Pd and add - for all >> I care - a frozen collection of externals. Pd-extended was always one >> or two versions behind Pd. Now it's already three. If I want to make my >> stuff portable and available to non-Pd-savvy people, I have to stick >> with compatibility with Pd-extended 0.43, which is a huge pain, >> considering what more recent versions of Pd offer ([array], [text], >> [oscparse], new methods for time based objects, etc.). >> >> I agree with you that there is a lot of mess and redundancy. But I'm not >> sure if it matters that much. >> >> Roman >> >> >
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