This might be relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_names_and_symbols_(popular_music)
On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 12:31 AM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com> wrote: > No worries, Matt!! One thing I love about this community is, that while > there is complete love for newbies-- > > (e.g. my first (and ugliest!) snare patch I posted to the Facebook group > got like 30 likes!!) > > -- I feel there is also a gentle demand (and sometimes not so gentle) for > intellectual rigor, scientific investigation, completeness in the solution. > A kind of technical aesthetic. I really appreciate that. > > So I do appreciate all of these comments -- > > Miller your comment about Varese made me laugh... when I dreamed up that > ugly tetrachord of all minor seconds, I immediately thought of Frank Zappa > and the "Zappa Cluster". I think he studied with Varese.... > > But I am caught between dealing with a broad robust complete solution, and > also something I can reasonable a) get my head around, and b) deal with > using my existing controllers. > > I just want to play around with some chord maps, like Stephen Mugglin's. > And just see where that goes. I have an existing pad controller, and I > think I can map a subset of it. Pick a chord with my left had on the pad > controller, and pick a tonic with the keyboard on the right. I want to > build a sophisticated Autoharp with PD :) > > > > > I will keep in mind general applicability, and completeness, which I hear > from your comments. > > However-- any instrument or song made with it, or the scale mode it > uses... is a limited subset of possibilities. Like Iambic Pentameter. Or > Haiku. > It's an artificially imposed limitation on the field of all possibilities. > > It's not all possible chords --whatever that means! e.g. combinations of > notes made of tone timbres composed of sinusoids with certain mathematical > relationships between partials... but it is a *subset* of these. > > And while yes I appreciate the links to the microtonal stuff, I just > cannot deal with that now! Ha ha. I love listening to it-- like this > guy... <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWCwMW48FO4> > But it's *way *beyond my present understanding... I'm sticking with 12TET > for the moment... while acknowledging other realms exist. > > In some ways, it seems the limitations of structure > (like 12 TET or Iambic Pentameter, or only using > a subset of all possible chords, etc) > can inspire the movements within the creative work. > > So I am actually fine with dealing with just the chords on the > Mugglin Chord Map. I understand that this is a very incomplete > solution. > > Many thanks for the link to Tonnetz! > > Again, I appreciate all of the guidance and suggestions! > BH > > > > On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I hate to be a pedant/ass about this, but it's important to indicate the > scope of application. Most music (I'm not sure about "most songs") doesn't > use chords at all – chords are mostly a Western phenomenon (with some > important exceptions, e.g. Central Africa). > > All 29 tetrachord types can be found in: > > Western classical music of the last 100 years (at least) > > Jazz > > And if you count melodic structures as well: > > South Indian (Carnatic) ragas > > Western classical music of the last 300 years (at least) > > Prog Rock > > etc. > > That cluster is sometimes called the chromatic tetrachord, 0123, 4-1, > the B-A-C-H tetrachord, or something like "the four-note chromatic > cluster." It functions in lots of music, but probably not the kind modeled > by the map you linked to. > > If you're looking for chord maps, do you know about Tonnetze? > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnetz > > > > It says almost nothing about syntax -- the map you linked to is a syntax > graph -- but it does systemize some tonal relations. > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Thanks Matt! > >> > >> Yeah, I'm pretty good with the mathematics of permutations and > combinations... > >> > >> My goal is to be able to generate (and hopefully identify, given a list > of MIDI notes) any given chord/inversion. Which somewhat restricts these to > "musical" chords. > >> > >> I think a cluster, a tetrachord of all minor 2nds is not terribly > useful and probably doesn't have a name. Yes it is good to characterize it > for completeness :) > >> > >> My main purpose now is to build an instrument which allows me to > traverse a "chord map", which generally follows how most songs are > structured. With an easy way to change the tonic, make inversions, and > maybe throw in some substitutions. > >> > >> I have a 4x4 drum pad controller, which I want to use to play a drone > chord, and move through a map, while I play a lead with my right hand. > >> > >> I really like what this guy has done (but there are many maps like > this): > >> > >> http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/genmap.htm > >> > >> > >> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > I just remembered this Julian Hook article on Music Theory Online, if > you want to find out more about how to find the number of chords of a given > size: > >> > http://www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.07.13.4/mto.07.13.4.hook.html > >> > > >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 3:00 PM, William Huston < > williamahus...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Matt suggested I forward this side discussion (and attachment) to > the list. > >> >> > >> >> N.B., Matt is referring by number to the list of 55 intervals I > identified in my original, quoted below. However, it was an HTML list, and > the numbering got munched during quoting. Sorry if that makes this slightly > unclear. --BH > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> >> From: Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com> > >> >> Date: Monday, November 2, 2015 > >> >> Subject: chord libraries? > >> >> To: William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> We also eliminate transpositions, so in this case 55 is the same > chord as 1, 18 and 12 are the same, and so forth. If we eliminate all > transpositions and inversions, we end up with 12 trichords: > >> >> 012* > >> >> 013 > >> >> 014 > >> >> 015 > >> >> 016 > >> >> 024* > >> >> 025 > >> >> 026 > >> >> 027* > >> >> 036* > >> >> 037 > >> >> 048* > >> >> I marked the 5 that are self-inversional with a star. They're all > "musical," but again it depends on the type of music you're looking at. All > 19 trichords (eliminating transpositions and respacing) have been in use as > simultaneities since the late 1800s, but some more than others. 012 didn't > get a huge foothold until the first decade or two of the 20th century. > >> >> See the attached; it does eliminate inversions, but it wouldn't be > that hard to make that a user preference. [list-setclass] outputs the > normal form as I described above, and the interval-vector one outputs a > catalog of the chromatic intervals contained in the chord (eliminating > unisons, octaves and inversions). In mod 12 there are 6 chromatic > intervals, counting minor seconds and major sevenths as the same -- the > output just gives you the number of each interval in the chord from 1 to 6 > (or whatever if you choose a different modulus). > >> >> Matt > >> >> PS -- if you like, you can bump this response up to the list. > >> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 12:28 PM, William Huston < > williamahus...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks Matt. Yes interested. > >> >> > > >> >> > FTR, if we do not eliminate inversions, I count 55 3-tone chords > in 12TET: > >> >> > > >> >> > 111000000000 > >> >> > 110100000000 > >> >> > 110010000000 > >> >> > 110001000000 > >> >> > 110000100000 > >> >> > 110000010000 > >> >> > 110000001000 > >> >> > 110000000100 > >> >> > 110000000010 > >> >> > 110000000001 > >> >> > 101100000000 > >> >> > 101010000000 > >> >> > 101001000000 > >> >> > 101000100000 > >> >> > 101000010000 > >> >> > 101000001000 > >> >> > 101000000100 > >> >> > 101000000010 > >> >> > 101000000001 > >> >> > 100110000000 > >> >> > 100101000000 > >> >> > 100100100000 > >> >> > 100100010000 > >> >> > 100100001000 > >> >> > 100100000100 > >> >> > 100100000010 > >> >> > 100100000001 > >> >> > 100011000000 > >> >> > 100010100000 > >> >> > 100010010000 > >> >> > 100010001000 > >> >> > 100010000100 > >> >> > 100010000010 > >> >> > 100010000001 > >> >> > 100001100000 > >> >> > 100001010000 > >> >> > 100001001000 > >> >> > 100001000100 > >> >> > 100001000010 > >> >> > 100001000001 > >> >> > 100000110000 > >> >> > 100000101000 > >> >> > 100000100100 > >> >> > 100000100010 > >> >> > 100000100001 > >> >> > 100000011000 > >> >> > 100000010100 > >> >> > 100000010010 > >> >> > 100000010001 > >> >> > 100000001100 > >> >> > 100000001010 > >> >> > 100000001001 > >> >> > 100000000110 > >> >> > 100000000101 > >> >> > 100000000011 > >> >> > > >> >> > But roughly 2/3's are inversions, so if we exclude inversions as > being the same chord, then yes we get 55*.3333 =~ 19. I'm guessing at least > one of these is an inversion of itself which is why 55 is not evenly > divisible by 3. > >> >> > > >> >> > Anyway, I'm not sure how many of these are really musical. I would > think of those 19, only about 8-10 are commonly used. > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks, interested in whatever you have :) > >> >> > > >> >> > BH > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> -- > >> >> May you, and all beings > >> >> be happy and free from suffering :) > >> >> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta) > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ______________________________________________ > >> >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > >> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> -- > >> May you, and all beings > >> be happy and free from suffering :) > >> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta) > >> > > > > >
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