Me, I'm paranoid :) I haven't looked at TWAPI yet, but in general there would have to be a compelling reason to add a dependency to Pd. I'm trying to make sure everything that goes in there will still be running 30-ish years in the future.
cheers Miller On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 11:21:29PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote: > I don't think asking a couple legitimate questions is paranoia. When adding > any kind of library to a software project, you always want to balance what > the library provides with having another dependency. It can be easy to add > the kitchen sink but hard to maintain it. > > Since it's a TCL extension, worse case is that it can't be loaded and Pd runs > fine without it. So less of a worry in some ways as compared to a C library. > > enohp ym morf tnes > ----------- > Dan Wilcox > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > On Dec 12, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Lucas Cordiviola <lucard...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > @Dan > > > > more: > > > > Why are you paranoid about TWAPI ? > > Is open source. > > Is up and running since 2007, last update november 2017. > > > > Developers surely had tested that it works from win7 to win10. > > > > > > > > Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas. > >> On 12/12/2017 1:57 PM, Lucas Cordiviola wrote: > >> @ Dan > >> > >> I think TWAPI works on any windows machine. > >> I'm not against that we do it your way but does that means it will work on > >> all windows versions? > >> Will you be able to test that? > >> I'm saying this just to save your time. We can use TWAPI now and you have > >> plenty of time to find something better some future sunday afternoon. > >> > >> Here the PR (it didn't took me 10minutes): > >> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/270 > >> > >> Here is a Test version (also it didn't took me 10minutes): > >> http://lucarda.com.ar/x/dejavu/pd-dejavu-test-w32.zip > >> > >> Is working on win8.1 & win10 (I don't have a win7 atm to test) > >> > >> Can you test it on a win7 machine? > >> > >> > >> > >> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas. > >>> On 12/12/2017 8:15 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote: > >>> You misunderstand me. > >>> > >>> I'm not against something that #1 works and is #2 maintainable. I'm not > >>> sure that this fix is either yet. You can, of course, do some testing and > >>> prove that it meets #1 and #2. I naturally do *not* speak for Miller who > >>> largely ends up responsible for many of these things, but I'm really just > >>> trying to be similarly skeptical towards solutions that involve adding > >>> all sorts of *this* and *that*. > >>> > >>> #1 Works: > >>> > >>> TWAPI is a precompiled TCL/TK library for the Windows API, does the > >>> binary you've included work for *all* versions of Windows versions that > >>> Pd users are likely to have (or at least most)? The catch should handle > >>> most problems but if *lots* of people are using Windows 7 and this > >>> doesn't actually work on Windows 7 but works for *you* on say Windows 10, > >>> then maybe it's not a real fix yet? I know the windows api has been > >>> historically stable but I don't know about C libs & TCL libs complied > >>> against it. > >>> > >>> #2 Maintainable: > >>> > >>> How often does TWAPI change? Is it stable? Who will keep track of > >>> updating the binary copy in the Pd repo? > >>> > >>> (#3) Also, I'm against requiring an entire single-platform library for > >>> essentially 2 loading calls. This is really one of my more main reasons > >>> to be skeptical as, once again, we can write our *own* tiny C TCL binding > >>> library just for Pd which loads the fonts and is only built & loaded on > >>> Windows. I've found documentation and sample code on doing this, I just > >>> have not been able to find the time to get to it yet. I feel this > >>> approach would be more maintainable and understandable in the longer run > >>> even if it's not a 10 minute solution. > >>> > >>> We have been moving in steps: getting Pd to build in autotools on Windows > >>> leads directly to building a tiny font loading library. :) Step by step... > >>> > >>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 6:40 PM, Lucas Cordiviola <lucard...@hotmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Note: DejaVu Sans Mono is the default font but it's not currently > >>>>> shipped with or loaded by Pd on Windows yet. There is some extra work > >>>>> needed for this > >>>> > >>>> I got work on this, see: > >>>> > >>>> http://lucarda.com.ar/x/dejavu/readme.html > >>>> @Dan > >>>> > >>>> Do I make a PR and we forget about it? > >>>> > >>>> Is not a big deal and you always opposed it. I think an other method > >>>> will be always postponed and will make it by 0.57-9test3. > >>>> > >>>> : -) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas. > >>>>> On 12/7/2017 10:40 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote: > >>>>> Yes, the sizes are a little smaller/tighter and come from Pd-extended. > >>>>> Things work best with DejaVu Sans Mono so rendering should be the same > >>>>> using the same font. For more info, see: > >>>>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/159 > >>>>> > >>>>> If everyone ends up hating this, we could just go back to Courier on > >>>>> all platforms. At least then we wouldn't have to ship a font.... > >>>>> > >>>>> Note: DejaVu Sans Mono is the default font but it's not currently > >>>>> shipped with or loaded by Pd on Windows yet. There is some extra work > >>>>> needed for this and it seemed important to fix the sizing issues on > >>>>> macOS first. I wrote up some info about the fonts in > >>>>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/font/README.txt > >>>>> > >>>>> Also, zooming now works for all guis, the inlets & outlets are the same > >>>>> height, lots of little drawing bugs were fixed (VU scale not completly > >>>>> hidden), etc etc etc. > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 7:35 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 18:14:59 +0000 > >>>>>> From: Lucas Cordiviola <lucard...@hotmail.com> > >>>>>> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>, Christof Ressi > >>>>>> <christof.re...@gmx.at> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] Fw: Re: [PD-announce] Pd 0.48-1 test version > >>>>>> released > >>>>>> Message-ID: > >>>>>> <blupr01mb552bc5eb5950ba429b62d5fa6...@blupr01mb552.prod.exchangelabs.com> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Christof, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes this changes were totally intentional, and are for good IMO, now > >>>>>> patches render the same on all platforms!. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They were well tested, see: > >>>>>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/227 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> : - ) > >>>>> > >>>>> -------- > >>>>> Dan Wilcox > >>>>> @danomatika > >>>>> danomatika.com > >>>>> robotcowboy.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -------- > >>> Dan Wilcox > >>> @danomatika > >>> danomatika.com > >>> robotcowboy.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > >> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
