Trouble might be that there are other forms of subwindows (array, text) that aren't patches. So we'd need a term for 'a subwindow that's a patch'. Maybe 'patch subwindow'? But that's so close to 'subpatch' that it would make everythig worse I think.
cheers M On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 07:00:36PM +0200, Max wrote: > May I propose subwindow as an umbrella term for both abstractions and > subpatches? > > Both terms should be either hyphenated or not. I am fine with not > hyphenating them, but as a native German speaker I might have a bias towards > sticking words together. > > m. > > On 12.08.2018 18:45, Miller Puckette wrote: > > Well, (adopting for the moment subpatch/abstraction for the larger class and > > one-off subpatch for the more specific one of a non-abstraction)... > > > > I imagine that more things are true of subpatch/abstractions (they have > > subwindows, inlets, outlets; and their run-time semantics are identical) > > than are true of either subset alone (of which we may say that saving and > > loading, and $-argument handling act differently). > > > > So it's convenient to have some name or other for 'abstraction/subpatch'... > > but if just calling this a 'subpatch' is confusing, perhaps we can think of > > another term. > > > > cheers > > Miller > > > > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 02:23:15PM +0200, Max wrote: > > > Hi Miller, thanks for chiming in. > > > > > > On 12.08.2018 00:54, Miller Puckette wrote: > > > > I think the best terminology is "sub-patch" for either an abstraction or > > > > for a one-off subpatch. (But then we probably need a better term for > > > > 'one-off'; > > > > maybe 'ad hoc'? > > > > > > may I ask the rationale for it? > > > > > > I believe a clearly defined and consistent terminology is very important > > > for > > > people trying to understand the manuals and helpfiles. > > > The definitions in 2.7 and 2.7.1 are good, and I think the terms > > > "subpatch" > > > and "abstraction" are good too. > > > ** subpatch ** is like a folder structure where things can be put into and > > > stuffed away. > > > ** abstraction ** is exactly what it sounds like. The term doesn't try to > > > be > > > what a "class" is in other languages, I think that's smart. > > > > > > The established definitions give us a clear distinction between externals, > > > abstractions and subpatches. > > > > > > Now I just wish the documentation would be consistent with those > > > established > > > terms and not adding confusion by using the terms differently. > > > > > > m. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > Miller > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 01:44:18PM +0200, Max wrote: > > > > > In the Pd documentation the word > > > > > > > > > > abstraction is found 1859 times > > > > > subpatch is found 2142 times > > > > > sub-patch is found 45 times > > > > > subwindow is found 24 times > > > > > sub-window is found 1 time (that's in the html document, where it > > > > > occurs 3 > > > > > times hyphenated and 1 time not hyphenated) > > > > > > > > > > For reference: Definitions of the terms subpatch and abstraction can > > > > > be > > > > > found in paragraphs 2.7 and 2.7.1 of the documentation. > > > > > > > > > > The terms however are consistently used inconsistent. > > > > > > > > > > in 2.7.2 "Graph-on-parent subpatches" the illustration shows an > > > > > abstraction, > > > > > not a subpatch. The text first talks about an abstraction and then > > > > > continues: "When the sub-patch is closed, all controls in it appear > > > > > on the > > > > > object instead; so the number box in the sub-patch in the example > > > > > above is > > > > > the same one as you see in the box. " > > > > > > > > > > Even weirder, there is a definition of the term "abstraction" in the > > > > > clone-help.pd which goes as follows: "a patch loaded as an object in > > > > > another > > > > > patch" > > > > > but in the same patch the clones abstraction is named > > > > > "clone-subpatch.pd". > > > > > > > > > > Is there something I am missing here? > > > > > > > > > > m. > > > > > > > > > > On 05.08.2018 12:01, Max wrote: > > > > > > OK, let me try myself, please correct me: > > > > > > > > > > > > An abstraction is a Pd patch which is used like an object in > > > > > > another Pd > > > > > > patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > A subpatch is saved within the main patch and is constructed with > > > > > > [pd > > > > > > {name}]. Multiple subpatches with the same name may coexist. > > > > > > > > > > > > Subwindow is the umbrella term for both of the prior terms. > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone can confirm that the above definition is true, I will > > > > > > make > > > > > > some pull requests to the documentation/ help files since it isn't > > > > > > consistent. The pd~-help for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 04.08.2018 14:05, Max wrote: > > > > > > > In the helpfiles and on this list the three words > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'abstraction' > > > > > > > 'subpatch' or 'sub-patch' > > > > > > > 'subwindow' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are used. could someone provide a definition of those? I suspect > > > > > > > they aren't used in a consistent way throughout the documentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > m. > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list