On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Cotty wrote:

> Art - and don't kid yourself: photography is art - is totally and utterly
> subjective.

Photography is as much art as pottery. There is Ming pottery and ASDA
plastic vases. My photography is ASDA plastic vases. There is a lot I
can learn by studying Ming and everything in between so as to produce
better ASDA plastic vases. The folks of Ming cannot teach me anything,
they are long gone (of course I can study their work, but it's just
not the same). Graywolf (who started this conversation saying that
suggestions on cropping and framing are crap) has helped me a lot, as
has the list in general.

> There are those of us who consider ourselves students, and rightly are
> learning by trial and error - but what are they learning?

What all students should learn: to *listen*. Oh, by the way, I know of
a famous man whose most famous quote is that he is aging always a
student. Even if I was content with a picture, I am always willing to
listen how you or anybody would have taken it. I can always reject it,
but I am always thankful.

Kostas

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