Gentlemen, It is interesting what has happened to the concept of "freedom" over the last couple of centuries. This Greate Experiment promised the "freedom to..." and tried to build a solution around self-government (Federalism coupled with free moral agency ala John Calvin) to enhance that Opportunity. Despite its weeknesses and failings, it has succeeded.
Follow this with a redefinition of freedom that excluded free moral agency and a restriction of Federalism and individual morality to a societal (collective) responsibility and economy. (By economy I do not mean monies but the systematic.) This is the enlightened secularization of Kant/Hegel/Marx that led to the establishment of varioius degrees of Socialism (both Communism and National). People are now convinced that real freedom is "freedom from...", with restrictions being placed on opposition and conflict, rather than "freedom to..." where they create their own opportunities. The implicit contractiction here is clear -- others will want to be as free from you as you want to be free from them. Both senses of freedom disapper automatically and you end up with neither. In principle you may be free from the harshness of Communism but not the economy. The Socialist paradigm does not acknowledge your individual freedoms. You're right -- your freedoms are still restricted. To make the point more practical in one's daily life ... The "Off" switch is as powerful as your "kill file". You should make the choice or delegate it. If the collective makes it for you (or you delegate it), then you're still not free. Thank socialism. If you choose to kill my messages, then you agree with me. (Fascinating paradox, isn't it?) Collin BobS> Frantisek, BobS> BobS> Advertising at it's most basic is a form of communications designed to inform people BobS> about products. It performs a very useful function in modern society. BobS> BobS> Don't tell Paul his lifework is worthless. How would you feel if somebody said BobS> Physics is a load of crap and we could get along fine without any more of it (just BobS> keep engineers). What have quarks done for me lately? BobS> BobS> Perhaps the old communist societies had nothing to sell, no consumer products to offer BobS> the public, and thus didn't have much use for advertising. BobS> BobS> Remember there are people who are not bothered by advertising because they do not BobS> watch TV. (I find this difficult as you quickly become poorly informed about consumer BobS> things.) BobS> BobS> Regards, Bob S. BobS> BobS> Frantisek offered: BobS> PS> thinking about the message, but it sticks. It doesn't mean they're BobS> PS> stupid, it must means they absorb little bits of information on the BobS> PS> fly. That's how advertising works. It's not about presenting logical BobS> PS> arguments. That job falls to the press. BobS> BobS> Concept of Memes. Virus. I don't like any viruses in my mind. No thank BobS> you. BobS> BobS> PS> Fine. But advertising works for many consumers. Advertising is part of BobS> PS> what makes a free market economy function. It's part of how I earn my BobS> PS> living. I don't care if you don't like it. Nor do the majority of free BobS> PS> people in the world. Tightly regulated socialist and communist BobS> PS> societies prohibit advertising of goods and services. The freedoms that BobS> PS> are allowed by any society are a matter of choice, and it's a choice we BobS> PS> all have to make. BobS> BobS> Oh Paul, stop it. Since when are you the speaker for "the majority of free BobS> people in the world" ? Since when are people who don't like BobS> advertising are associated with socialist and communist totalities? BobS> BobS> I see the "freedoms" you offer us as totalitarian. What freedom at BobS> all? Damn, what choice do I have to turn of the adverts? There is less BobS> and less choice in that "free society" of yours. And if you'd label me BobS> as socialist, let me tell you, I come from a country which suffered 40 BobS> years under communism, we know totality very well, and we have BobS> sensitive noses for snuffing new forms of it. BobS> BobS> Others: sorry for the politics, but such self-assumed message makes me BobS> hot. If Paul hadn't pursued the topic of politics himself, I might not BobS> have boiled off. ------------------------------------- 'If you can make the choice then you are free, no matter what 1+1 equals.' -- just me _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
