To me, the bottom line is a cost over time ratio.
Most newcomers (last 10-20 years) to the realm of audio systems are
going for "Home Theater" setups. Unless you are showing 35-70mm film
(audio not so good) you are looking at a digitally based system, with
digital sourcing. 20 years ago that was Laserdiscs and rear projection
TV up to 60". I have boxes of Laserdiscs. I love them. Now it's Blue-
Ray DVDs and either digital projectors or 60" LCD TVs. Prices vary,
but the point is these folks "for the most part" are not going for
"perfect sound", but loud sound. Surround sound (inherently noisy).
They may spend $50,000 to $500,000 on a room and electronics, and
approach good sound (sssssssssssss). But they do not get there, at
least not to the levels to which JC refers.
Regarding my first sentence. The improvement in performance of a sonic
system is inversely proportional to the amount of money you throw at
it. The degree of improvement diminishes per dollar spent once you
pass a certain ever-changing point. Most would be very happy with a
$10,000 to $50,000 system. To improve on the $50k system would take
another $10-20k. The cost of the system I listened to in California
for almost two years escalated from about $80k when I arrived to well
over $125k by the time I left. The $30k Sound Lab Millenium speakers
were replaced with $42k Sound Lab Majestic speakers.
The cabling, all of it, was replaced with custom built cables costing
up to $300 ft, depending on the signal. Audiophile friends would drive
500 miles to spend a weekend at the ranch to audition the system. Each
had a solution for what they perceived was some subtle fault in the
staging, highs, lows, voicing, etc.. Bundles of hand crafted circuits
appeared and disappeared as tweeks were made to the system to do one
thing or another to improve it. The house was rewired so the left and
right channels each had their own physically and electronically
isolated circuits connected to the mains. The outlets were replaced
with custom special shielded boxes with gold plated locking sockets. A
Marantz $7000 SA 7S1 SACD player was added. The phono pre-amp and
regular pre-amp, as well as the turntable and power amps remained the
same, but re-tubed with some high end matched tubes, 11 per amplifier.
The D-A converter was upgraded 3 times to improve the sound of the
iTunes player on the Mac Mini. As you can see, it is never ending,
ongoing chase for the perfect sound. Never achievable, but each step
an (almost or sometimes) improvement over yesterdays sound.
If it were my money, I probably could have heard the minute
incremental improvements the system produced. But it wasn't mine, and
with the exception of the speakers, I was straining to hear any. No A-
B baby. Just Leonard Cohen and some opera and some live jazz, all
direct to disk at 33 or 45 rpm.
With the exception of a couple of recent years in the presence of a
$100,000 plus system, my last 20 years have been in the company of a
$20,000 system in 1989 prices. Since purchased, I've not had any one
close to me die and leave me the money to take it any further, other
than the addition of a Denon DVD and a second and third Laserdisc
player. Nor have I had a place to set it up again until last year, and
that space is still full of stuff to be gotten rid of or sold
(darkrooms, studios, and books no longer needed). Unitil that happens,
I listen to my music on my iTouch when on the move, inside or outside,
where the choice of earbuds determines the sound you hear, or from
iTunes on my Mac to a pair of Apple Design speakers that fail
miserably on the low end. My computer sub is still packed somewhere
downstairs.
And I'm happy with what I hear, knowing the limitations of what I am
listening through. I can wait for my "big" system to be set up again,
though I'd better hurry, as time rushes on, and I approach my own
terminal velocity in life somewhere in the future, 10, 20, but not 30
years in the future. Everything has been unpacked. Just no place to
set it up and sit in my new easy chair to listen to it.
Unfortunately, my sub was not THX certified, and after listening to a
THX Laserdisc at a nik too great an spl 3 years ago, is now awaiting a
new surround, very hard to find for an analog driven Velodyne 18"
unit. As soon as I can gather the $300 just to ship the driver to
florida and back, the repair is only $50. A newer better digitally
driven unit (both have servo control) starts at a $2500 price point.
To JC, and perhaps some others who enjoy this hobby (?) I'm just a
bottom feeder. Except for the initial investment, every addition has
been with used gear to fill in gaps as technology grows.
On Nov 14, 2009, at 11:44 , J.C. O'Connell wrote:
well if you don't have or want to buy the right
playback equipment, fine, but don't argue that
CD or MP3 is a best format for sound quality.
Its not, its cheaper or possibly better value
at low sound quality but that's not the same
as best sounding recording format.
--
J.C. O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net)
Join the CD PLAYER & DISC Discussions :
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdplayers/
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/cdsound/
-----Original Message-----
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf
Of
Tom C
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:35 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: OT: Vinyl vs. Digital - the "all vinyl is noisy" myth,
exposed in video
Exactly right.
<snip>
What about if you DON'T have the right equipment? You have to decide
if you want to spend the money on audiophile stereo equipment ... or
do you want to spend it on something else?
Someone was bandying about the number $2500 for a good vinyl
reproduction system. Gotta' consider what else you might want to
spend
$2500 on if you already have a good enough CD audio system?
Again, it all comes down to recognizing when good enough is good
enough.
<snip>
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