Gary R, list, Thanks for introducing discussion of this very interesting topic.
One would expect Harari, bearing in mind his main audience, to rely on a concept such as intersubjectivity. But, in answer to your question ‘Is Harari’s concept of “intersubjective reality” compatible with Peircean realism?’, the most direct and extensive discussion of this issue that I have come across was offered by John Deely nearly 23 years ago. John’s conclusions can be found in Chapter 9 of his 2009 book, Purely Objective Reality (Berlin: de Gruyter). The chapter, aptly, carries the title of the original 2002 lecture: ‘Why intersubjectivity is not enough’. There he outlines the concept of suprasubjectivity to explicate what he sees as compatible with Peircean realism. Best, Paul From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Gary Richmond <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, 11 January 2025 at 21:22 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Cc: Gary Fuhrman <[email protected]>, Benjamin Udell <[email protected]> Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Intersubjective Reality List, Gary Fuhrman, whom I sometimes think of as a philosopher of the Anthropocene, in the course of revising a section of his online book, Turning Signs [https://gnusystems.ca/TS/], forwarded a link to that section to see what I thought of his revision (I've read TS online and in its print version, and have discussed TS often with Fuhrman off List and in his blog). In the section [linked to below] he remarks that Yuval Noah Harari posits, in addition to the objective reality and subjective reality we Peirceans are all fairly familiar with, an intersubjective reality. Fuhrman later sent me a longer quote which, I think, helps clarify exactly what Harari means by "intersubjective reality" (I'll give the shorter quote in the context of Fuhrman's comments on it a bit later) in this post. "The two levels of reality that preceded storytelling are objective reality and subjective reality. Objective reality consists of things like stones, mountains, and asteroids—things that exist whether we are aware of them or not. An asteroid hurtling toward planet Earth, for example, exists even if nobody knows it’s out there. Then there is subjective reality: things like pain, pleasure, and love that aren’t “out there” but rather “in here.” Subjective things exist in our awareness of them. An unfelt ache is an oxymoron. "But some stories are able to create a third level of reality: intersubjective reality. Whereas subjective things like pain exist in a single mind, intersubjective things like laws, gods, nations, corporations, and currencies exist in the nexus between large numbers of minds. More specifically, they exist in the stories people tell one another. The information humans exchange about intersubjective things doesn’t represent anything that had already existed prior to the exchange of information; rather, the exchange of information creates these things."—Harari, Yuval Noah. Nexus (p. 25). McClelland & Stewart. Kindle Edition. I think that Peirce, should he have accepted the concept, might include these intersubjective realities with other symbols inhabiting his Third Universe of Experience. In the quotation below I've put those that might be examples of intersubjective realities in boldface. The third Universe comprises everything whose being consists in active power to establish connections between different objects, especially between objects in different Universes. Such is everything which is essentially a Sign -- not the mere body of the Sign, which is not essentially such, but, so to speak, the Sign's Soul, which has its Being in its power of serving as intermediary between its Object and a Mind. Such, too, is a living consciousness, and such the life, the power of growth, of a plant. Such is a living constitution -- a daily newspaper, a great fortune, a social "movement." CP 6.455 In Turning Signs Fuhrman puts these in the context of language, communication, information, community, relations and, perhaps especially, dialogue -- but not truth. See: https://gnusystems.ca/TS/dlg.htm#ntrsbj Here, Fuhrman comments, then quotes Harari: Humans are social animals who have used language for millennia to cooperate with others. Without it, and without the information networks which enable communication at ever larger scales, they could not have attained the dominance over life on Earth that we now call the Anthropocene<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene>. Some information networks enable humans to learn the truth about what they call “objective” reality, which is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks about it. But every sentient being has to sense its reality on its own, separately and “subjectively.” Consequently, both communication and power relations within the community depend on intersubjective realities<https://gnusystems.ca/TS/gld.htm#ntrsb>, as Yuval Harari calls them in Nexus (2024, 25): ‘they exist in the stories people tell one another.’ Not all these stories reflect “objective” reality, but they can be ‘real powers in the world’ (Peirce<https://gnusystems.ca/TS/sdg.htm#hsabstr>), and some information networks propagate them in order to maintain or modify a social order. The objects referred to by many symbols are among the intersubjective realities which people may naively confuse with “objective” truth. "Contrary to what the naive view of information says, information has no essential link to truth, and its role in history isn’t to represent a preexisting reality. Rather, what information does is to create new realities by tying together disparate things— whether couples or empires. Its defining feature is connection rather than representation, and information is whatever connects different points into a network. Information doesn’t necessarily inform us about things. Rather, it puts things in formation." (Harari 2024, 12) One question immediately comes to mind: Is Harari’s concept of “intersubjective reality” compatible with Peircean realism? I’d be interested in hearing list members' thoughts on this question. Best, Gary R PS My first attempt at sending this email failed as the default address is the old iupui one, so was undeliverable. Ben,, is there any way to make the new iu address the default address?
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