Thank you for the informative commentary on my post, sir. Really enjoyed
reading it.

On Wed, 2 Apr 2025, 6:46 am Jon Alan Schmidt, <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Suteerth, List:
>
> I apologize for the delayed response, but my attention has been elsewhere
> for the last few weeks. Here are a few comments on your post.
>
> SV: Consider what effects on your practice the object of your conception
> entails. The sum of all these practical effects is your entire conception
> of its meaning.
>
>
> This is your own paraphrase of Peirce's famous maxim, "Consider what
> effects, that might conceivably have practical bearings, we conceive the
> object of our conception to have. Then, our conception of these effects is
> the whole of our conception of the object" (CP 5.402, EP 1:132, 1878).
> Notice the repetition in the original statement--"conceivably," "conceive,"
> and "conception" (three times)--which you have largely omitted from your
> version. The relevant effects are not those *on your practice* that the
> object of your conception *entails*, they are those that we *conceive *that
> object to have which might *conceivably *have practical bearings of any
> kind; and it is not the *sum *of *practical *effects that constitutes
> your entire conception of its *meaning*, but your *conception *of *conceivable
> *effects that constitutes your entire *conception* of the object. See the
> differences? You might be interested in reading my paper on the maxim,
> which presents 13 variants along with 47 restatements and elaborations that
> Peirce formulated after William James began popularizing pragmatism in
> 1898, followed by my own analysis and commentary (
> https://philpapers.org/go.pl?aid=SCHPMO-8).
>
> SV: There are three modes of thought corresponding to the three different
> things that exist in the universe: qualities, relations and representations.
>
>
> For Peirce, these are not three different *things *that *exist *in the
> universe, they are three different *modes of being* that we prescind from
> whatever is or could be present to the mind in any way (the *phaneron*);
> and he ultimately preferred to designate them as "quality, reaction, and
> mediation" because these are respectively "the purest conceptions" of his
> three universal categories--1ns, 2ns, and 3ns (CP 1.530, 1903). They
> correspond to *three *different universes that together encompass
> whatever is capable of serving as the dynamical object of a sign--"Of the
> three Universes of Experience familiar to us all, the first comprises all
> mere Ideas ... The second Universe is that of the Brute Actuality of things
> and facts ... The third Universe comprises everything whose being consists
> in active power to establish connections between different objects,
> especially between objects in different Universes" (CP 6.455, EP 2:435,
> 1908).
>
> SV: Our ideas are in our heads while the real world to which they apply is
> outside.
>
>
> I suspect that Peirce would disagree with this statement. "A psychologist
> cuts out a lobe of my brain ... and then, when I find I cannot express
> myself, he says, 'You see your faculty of language was localized in that
> lobe.' No doubt it was; and so, if he had filched my inkstand, I should not
> have been able to continue my discussion until I had got another. Yea, the
> very thoughts would not come to me. So my faculty of discussion is equally
> localized in my inkstand. It is localization in a sense in which a thing
> may be in two places at once" (CP 7.366, 1902). "Accordingly, just as we
> say that a body is in motion, and not that motion is in a body we ought to
> say that we are in thought and not that thoughts are in us" (CP 5.289n, EP
> 1:42n, 1878).
>
> SV: Do you think that pragmatism has a future or do you think (like the
> philosopher nicholas rescher) that pragmatism as a criterion of meaning
> must give way to pragmatism as a methodological postulate?
>
>
> This strikes me as a false dichotomy. In Peirce's architectonic
> classification of the sciences, pragmatism falls within the third branch of
> the normative science of logic as semeiotic, which he sometimes calls
> *methodeutic*. The maxim itself as "a criterion of meaning" leads to "a
> methodological postulate," namely, the three stages of inquiry in their
> proper sequence--abduction/retroduction for formulating hypotheses,
> deduction for explicating those hypotheses, and induction for testing those
> hypotheses. That is my suggestion of "why Peirce considered pragmatism a
> maxim of logic and called it the logic of abduction." As for the proof of
> pragmatism, many scholars have offered attempts to reconstruct it since
> Peirce never quite managed to spell it out himself. In my opinion, the best
> of them is Nathan Houser's "proof from Peirce's theory of signs" (EP
> 2:xxxv-xxxvi) as gleaned from his various drafts for an article simply
> entitled "Pragmatism" (R 318-322&324, 1907).
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
> Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian
> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
>
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2025 at 10:02 AM suteerth vajpeyi <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> What is pragmatism ? Is it a method of clarifying the meaning of
>> conceptions or a criterion for deciding if a statement is meaningful or not
>> ? It serves both purposes. As a method of clarifying the meaning of
>> conceptions, it can be stated as follows:-
>>
>> Consider what effects on your practice the object of your conception
>> entails. The sum of all these practical effects is your entire conception
>> of its meaning. Here the word 'conception' means any idea introduced to
>> reduce the plurality of qualities and relations we are aware of into a
>> harmonious unity. For example we reduce all the various sensations we
>> perceive  to one concept in the proposition "The stove is black". The stove
>> is a bundle of qualities and relations which is unified under the general
>> idea of 'a black object'. Thus 'black' is a conception here. All this is
>> from peirce's article "On a new list of categories".
>>
>> What is meant by the phrase, 'the conception of meaning of a term'? The
>> job of a conception is to unify. So when we have unified all the qualities
>> and relations we are referring to into one representation using one term we
>> will have grasped its entire meaning. Take the term 'Justice'. It is a
>> representation of a quality prevailing in the relations between men when
>> they strive to achieve their common good, the good of the unlimited
>> community.
>>
>> So far we have only enumerated some examples to the effect that the real
>> world outside us is made up of qualities and relations which can be
>> confirmed by a multitude of observers from the same perspective or
>> standpoint. We have seen that all propositions and words are a species of
>> signs or representations and that the function of all representations is to
>> unify a set of different qualities and relations into one.
>>
>> There are three modes of thought corresponding to the three different
>> things that exist in the universe: qualities, relations and
>> representations. They have been called by alfred north whitehead as the
>> mode of presentational immediacy which grasps qualities, the mode of causal
>> efficacy which grasps relations and the mixed mode of sign reference which
>> grasps representations. Now we can also begin to understand how a
>> representation that has no effect on our practice is meaningless.
>>
>> This is because by the term meaning, peirce referred to what is today
>> called the conventional intension of a term. Not all the objective
>> attributes possessed by a thing nor all the whimsical beliefs about that
>> thing are what is referred to here. What is referred to here is the use to
>> which a representation is put by a community of users.
>>
>> Why does a representation need to have an influence upon our actions in
>> order to be meaningful ? Our ideas are in our heads while the real world to
>> which they apply is outside. Now other observers or inquirers only share
>> with us the external world in which we live. Our only contact with reality
>> is via the two processes of observation and action. But why not simply say
>> that the sum of all effects upon our observations is the entire meaning of
>> a term. Why choose action over observation ? Indeed the logical positivists
>> preferred to speak of the observational effects that trace their origin to
>> the object denoted by a representation. Peirce on the other hand preferred
>> to speak of action. Choosing action as a criterion of meaning has marked
>> advantages over choosing observation.
>>
>> The reason for these advantages is simple. Action is the only point of
>> contact between our external and our internal worlds. When we act, we
>> modify reality and also observe the effects of that modification. Also, we
>> have no clue about the thoughts of others. Only the actions that express
>> those thoughts are what can be grasped by us. Thus, to know the
>> conventional intension of a term or statement, we have to take stock of how
>> it modifies the actions of ourselves and others. Meaning, in the sense of
>> the conventional intension of a term must be user and observer independent.
>> That is why, in order to make observation more objective and reproducible,
>> peirce preferred to speak of an idea's influence over our actions. This
>> also had the added advantage of making normative ideas more tractable and
>> meaningful. With an observational criterion of meaning, one just cannot
>> explicate the meaning of normative conceptions around which most of our
>> time, interest and energies are spent. Normative conceptions by definition
>> refer not to what exists but what ought to exist, not to our present state
>> of affairs but to our future actions. This makes normative terms like
>> justice and goodness clearer and more precise something that could not be
>> accomplished by all the formidable tools of the mathematical logic of the
>> positivists.
>>
>> References: Peirce- how to make our ideas clear, on a new list of
>> categories.
>> A.N. whitehead- modes of thought
>>
>> Do let me know your thoughts on this defence of pragmatism. Inform me of
>> the mistakes and shortcomings of this exposition.
>>
>> Do you think that pragmatism has a future or do you think (like the
>> philosopher nicholas rescher) that pragmatism as a criterion of meaning
>> must give way to pragmatism as a methodological postulate ?
>>
>> Do you think that pragmatism can be proved from more fundamental
>> assumptions or that a proof is un-necessary or impossible ?
>>
>> Could someone supply the complete proof of pragmatism from more basic
>> assumptions (something which peirce was prevented from doing by his
>> circumstances and ultimately his death) ?
>>
>> Finally let me know your thoughts on why peirce considered pragmatism a
>> maxim of logic and called it the logic of abduction.
>>
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
> https://cspeirce.com  and, just as well, at
> https://www.cspeirce.com .  It'll take a while to repair / update all the
> links!
> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected]
> .
> ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected]
> with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in
> the body.  More at https://list.iu.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
> ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and
> co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at 
https://cspeirce.com  and, just as well, at 
https://www.cspeirce.com .  It'll take a while to repair / update all the links!
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . 
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with 
UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the 
body.  More at https://list.iu.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and 
co-managed by him and Ben Udell.

Reply via email to