Jack, List
I think I’m allowed a second post on a day..still not sure…but I’d like to
applaud Jack’s post here - Far more important than the ‘ad nauseam discussions
over the precision of terms - is to explore, to understand what exactly is
going on in this semiotic process!
Semiosis is not just some isolate rhetoric - getting dangerously close to the
medieval debates of angels-on-a-pin. Semiosis is a scientific examination of
actual reality - the phaneron…and what and how matter/energy/information is
actually formed, is transformed, within precise..not terms..but precise triadic
morphological processes!
How does matter/energy/information move and become morphologically specific
within the interaction of a lizard..which is a semiotic organism…with another
semiotic organism, eg, an insect…right from the first interaction of the two [
both as Dynamic Objects to each other] and..as Dynamic Interpretants [ of each
other! ]. What energy/information must be added, must be lost..will be picked
up by some other semiotic organism…and..What semiotic organization [ via the
Representamen process] is working in this interaction? And..as Robert Marty
points out in his lattice - how many phases of these triads takes place..to
move from the first interactions [ DO] to the Dynamic Interpretants?
You can, of course, do the same with human verbal interaction - { I just happen
to find the non-verbal semiosis more interesting]…what happens within a
dialogue interaction of two Dynamic Objects, persons A and B and their
rhetoric…..How is the information processed within their two different
Representamen knowledge bases..to produce Dynamic Interpretants that might have
no relationship to the original Dynamic Objects?
It’s the complex energy/informationprocess, as ‘handled’ by the movements
within the semiosic lattice - that, in my view, provides the most productive
analysis of the phaneron.
Edwina
> On Sep 26, 2025, at 2:32 PM, Jack Cody <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Edwina, List,
>
> I agree entirely with what Edwina has said regarding R. Marty's work. Peirce
> lives or dies with respect to the kind of work R. Marty has done here where
> the structuralism, necessarily deduced from Peirce's writings, is given
> mathematically and precisely (in numerical structure). Far more valuable, in
> my opinion, than arguments ad nauseum over the precision of certain terms.
> Indeed, following the work done one could switch out all of Peirce's terms
> and retain his basic structure —which is surely the "scientific" point.
> (arbitary state grammars, etc, with respect to a structuralism which Peirce
> understood to be non-arbtirary).
>
> Best
> Jack
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf
> of Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2025 2:41 PM
> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Cc: robert marty <[email protected]>; edwina Taborsky
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Indexicality and Speculative Grammar (was Facts,
> Opinion, Perspective, and Inquiry)
>
> List
>
> Robert Marty provided us with a lattice of the ten classes of triadic signs-
> and referred to them as showing ‘a phenomenological principle of embodiments’.
>
> I think that should be the focus - not the terms that Peirce used - but the
> actuality of semiosis. What does semiosis do? It is an organizational process
> that ‘embodies’ energy/matter/information into one form, and then, enables
> the transformation of this form with its energy/matter/information
> content…into another morphological form. This suggests that semiosis
> organizes energy/matter/information - and both ADDS to one embodiment..and/or
> REMOVES from an embodiment. And also- reorganizes try content...
>
> Robert has shown this in his lattice, where. For example, a Dicent Indexical
> Legisign [322] a street cry] embodies Rheumatic Indexical Legisigns [321] a
> demonstrative pronoun…Notice that the Dicent has picked up information, or
> added information, to that Rhematic triad. It’s moved from an interpretant in
> Firstness to one in Secondness - it’s more specific and focused. Now- how did
> it do this? Where did this extra information come from? Is it the Legisign
> process that is transforming this morphology?
>
> Edwina
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