Robert, List: As I demonstrated by providing the relevant quotations in my previous post in this thread (CP 2.238&243, EP 2:290-1), although Peirce suggests in 1903 that *triadic relations* are classified using trichotomies for the nature of each correlate *itself*, he does not go on to classify *signs *that way; after all, a sign is *not *a triadic relation, it is the *first correlate* of such a relation (CP 2.242, EP 2:290). Instead, although the first trichotomy is indeed according to the nature of the sign *itself*, the second is according to the nature of the *relation* between the first and second correlates, the sign and its object; and the third is according to the nature of the *relation *between the first and third correlates, the sign and its interpretant.
These are both *dyadic *relations that are *involved *in the triadic relation, but the latter is not *reducible *to them, which is why it is a *genuine *triadic relation. Peirce recognizes already in 1903 that "In every genuine Triadic Relation, the First Correlate may be regarded as determining the Third Correlate in some respect" (CP 2.241, EP 2:290), i.e., the sign *determines *its interpretant. He later elaborates that the sign "is both determined by the object *relatively to the interpretant*, and determines the interpretant *in reference to the object*" (EP 2:410, 1907), i.e., the sign's dyadic relations with its object and interpretant are *both *relations of determination--the object *determines *the sign to *determine *the interpretant. Again, Peirce uses trichotomies for these *relations*, not the object and interpretant *themselves*, to classify signs in 1903. Identifying six correlates instead of three is a refinement, not an *entirely *new conceptualization. What Peirce calls the object in 1903 is precisely what he later calls the *dynamical *object, as distinguished from the *immediate *object. We know this because the trichotomy for the sign's relation with its object in 1903 (icon/index/symbol) is identical to the one for the sign's relation with its *dynamical *object in his later taxonomies. Likewise, what Peirce calls the interpretant in 1903 is what he later calls the *final *interpretant, as distinguished from the *immediate * and *dynamical *interpretants. We know this because the trichotomy for the sign's relation with its interpretant in 1903 (rheme/dicisign/argument) is identical to the one for the sign's relation with its *final *interpretant in his later taxonomies (further generalized to seme/pheme/delome). Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 2:48 AM robert marty <[email protected]> wrote: > Jon, List, > > It's clear that you don't know much about binary relations, let alone > triadic or hexadic relations. Once again, your response misses the point. > The binary relation you note (S-Od) by introducing Od, which cannot have > been present in 1903 since it first appeared in a hexadic definition of the > sign in 1906 (definition 33), in a new conceptualization of the sign with > six elements and five determinations. You always come back to that. > However, here Peirce works only with triadic relations, which he class > without any internal determination between their respective correlates. He > class them according to the valid triplets of natures to which he assigns > all three. Your 21 classes are flawed and have no future. I believe I have > already answered all of this in my previous posts. It is best that we leave > it at that. > > Best regards, > > Robert Marty > Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy > fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marty > *https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ <https://martyrobert.academia.edu/>* >
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