Edwina,
Thanks for the clarification. It seems to point to the difference in our
respective approaches, and I agree that yours is not ideally suited to adress
political issues. For completeness sake: for me, a sign that fulfills its
sign-function in raising interpretant signs (responses) is the point of
departure, not the nature of thirdness and its degenerate modes. So, for me a
citizen or government can be looked at as two monads A,B (firstness), that on a
specific occasion interact AB (secondness), with a response C as a consequence
(a first until it interacts itself). The description of the process that leads
to the response intends to express the law(s) (thirdness) that governs the
process. The distinctions made with regard to signs (small or 1902/3
classification) scaffold the description.
Best, Auke
Op 8 april 2020 om 23:32 schreef Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca>:
>
> Auke - thanks for your post.
>
> In this analysis, I'm looking at only the operation of Thirdness in both
> its genuine and degenerate modes. That is - I'm not considering the nature of
> the triad, ie, the Sign [a member of society, a government].I am not
> considering the triadic relations which make up a Sign. I am considering
> only of the category of Thirdness - which is the 'medium or connecting bond'.
> 1.337. that is Thirdness sets up commonalities.
>
> Thirdness, operating within a degenerate mode, i.e., within Secondness -
> sets up a specific type of commonality.an existential 'physical connection'
> , as an example, Peirce tells us of how 'a pin fastens two things together by
> sticking through one and also through the other. 1.366. My view of this 'pin'
> in a society is that 'networked interactive community. This is not
> necessarily intentional; it is indeed almost accidental, in that proximity
> within a common location binds the individual units into some kind of
> cohesion.
>
> Thirdness, operating within Firstness - suggests 'resemblance between
> forms' [1.367] - something which he refers to also as 'Thirds of comparison.
> My view of this in a society, understood as a collection of individuals [not
> a random set] is that there is a certain degree of similarity of type that
> established that commonality in this population. Therefore - some aspects
> cannot be 'decided on one's own'; for the point of a collection is its
> commonality.
>
> As for genuine Thirdness - I don't see it as a 'networked interactive
> community' - for I consider that this 'network' relies on the existence [2ns]
> of 'things'...which is why I see the networked interactive community as
> 'things [people] held together by some common idea [3ns].
>
> But genuine Thirdness, in my view, remains as pure thought - 'that which
> is what it is by virtue of imparting a quality to reactions in the future'
> [1.343]
>
> Edwina
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed 08/04/20 4:40 PM , a.bree...@chello.nl sent:
>
> > >
> > Edwina,
> >
> > In your take at the matter a 'networked interactive community' and
> > índividuals interacting' seem to me not to be on the same plane. I am
> > inclined to see the first as a 3.3 and the second as a 3.2.
> >
> > And, your 3.1 'mimetic population' is if taken as a sign aspect
> > iconicity, which is in basic semiotics of categorical value 2.1 so if
> > lifted to belong at bottom to thirdness a 3.2.1. if government only offers
> > suggestive (rheme 3.1) examples, individuals in the populace are left to
> > decide on their own.
> >
> > Since member of society and governemt are to be regarded as signs,
> > we are able to at least look at the matter from three perspectives for
> > each. Sign in itself, sign in relation to iets object and sign as it
> > adrfresses its interpreting sign.
> >
> > Auke
> >
> >
> > Op 7 april 2020 om 16:58 schreef Edwina Taborsky :
> >
> >
> > </tabor...@primus.ca>
> >
> > > > >
> > > Auke
> > >
> > > Governance, if we want to use a Peircean category to analyze
> > > it, would always have to be within the mode of Thirdness.
> > >
> > > Now- whether the governing mode is 3-1 [Thirdness operating
> > > in a mode of Firstness, which sets up a mimetic population] ; or 3-2,
> > > [Thirdness operating in a mode of Secondness] which sets up a networked
> > > interactive population [ie, individuals interacting]; or 3-3 [Thirdness
> > > operating in a mode of Thirdness] - which is pure ideology detached from
> > > a population - well, I think we could analyze such a framework. Not easy
> > > of course.
> > >
> > > But the article did not deal with the categories in this way;
> > > instead, it simply too each category 'in itself' and judged how it would
> > > operate as the guiding principle of a society. I disagree with such a
> > > tactic for the reasons I already gave.
> > >
> > > Edwina
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue 07/04/20 10:10 AM , Auke van Breemen
> > > a.bree...@upcmail.nl sent:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > Edwina, list,
> > > >
> > > > I feel inclined to give a less unfavorite response to
> > > > the suggestion, although the way of putting things is too crude.
> > > >
> > > > if we want to look at diferent kinds of governments
> > > > from a categorical perspective. The first thing we must admid is that
> > > > always the categorical distinction must be taken in a relative way,
> > > > i.e. it is about a firstness, secondness and thirdness aspect of a
> > > > third.
> > > >
> > > > If taken in this way we could design a Trikon (taken as
> > > > a ternary plot), dealing with control in society. First monad is self
> > > > control or anarchy, second node is complete control or dictatorship and
> > > > the third is representive government with free elections.
> > > >
> > > > Now, it is immediately evident that all governments we
> > > > score on the trikon partake in all three aspects but differ in the
> > > > mixture.
> > > >
> > > > With respect to the pandemic, we must accept that at
> > > > this moment we cannot say which type of political response proves
> > > > best. What we can do is wait for the results, investigate the measures
> > > > taken and associate them with a score on the Trikon. And next look at
> > > > the consequences each of the governments harvested.
> > > >
> > > > But all that is stuff to be discussed on the list and
> > > > elsewhere. I guess the main intent after the message was: in harsh
> > > > times people are inclined to look after each other, lets not forget
> > > > keeping doing that once the cirsis is resolved. I symphatize with that.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Auke van Breemen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Op 7 april 2020 om 14:44 schreef Edwina Taborsky :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > I disagree completely with this politicization of
> > > > > the Peircean categories. I consider that is shows a complete
> > > > > misunderstanding of the categories. I won't comment on the, what I
> > > > > feel are incorrect, political references. Just the description of the
> > > > > categories.
> > > > >
> > > > > I disagree that Firstness can be compared to
> > > > > 'capitalism' which is, after all, an economic system based around the
> > > > > individual freedom of private enterprise; I disagree that Firstness
> > > > > refers only to the individual 'I' and even 'should' disappear.
> > > > >
> > > > > All three categories in the Peircean framework
> > > > > are necessary categories and none of them should be reduced or are
> > > > > 'privileged'.
> > > > >
> > > > > Edwina
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon 06/04/20 10:37 PM , Gary Richmond
> > > > > gary.richm...@gmail.com sent:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > List,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Below is a brief report which the
> > > > > > distinguished Colombian scholar, Professor Fernando Zalamea (
> > > > > > Universidad Nacional de Colombia) , Coordinator of the G rupo de
> > > > > > Estudios Peirceano , prepared at the request of the Colombian
> > > > > > Ministry of Science concerning the coronavirus pandemic. It was
> > > > > > first published late in March, 2020.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The report was recently featured in a
> > > > > > Spanish scholarly newsletter, edited by Professors Jaime Nubiola,
> > > > > > Sara Barrena, Izaskun Martínez, who commented that the report "
> > > > > > muestra de manera práctica cómo el pensamiento de Charles S. Peirce
> > > > > > ayuda a pensar situaciones tan dramáticas como la presente" ("shows
> > > > > > in a practical way how the thought of Charles S. Peirce helps in
> > > > > > thinking about situations as dramatic as the present one.")
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here follows the brief report, first in
> > > > > > Spanish and then in my (rough) English translation (please refer to
> > > > > > the original Spanish version). GR
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Breve texto sobre la pandemia desde
> > > > > > > una perspectiva triádica peirceana.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fernando Zalamea
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Universidad Nacional de Colombia
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > En la arquitectónica del saber según
> > > > > > > Charles Sanders Peirce (USA, 1839-1914), tres categorías
> > > > > > > universales gobiernan los fenómenos: primeridad (lo que es en
> > > > > > > tanto tal, predicado monádico), segundidad (lo que es en tanto se
> > > > > > > correlaciona con otro, relación binaria) y terceridad (lo que es
> > > > > > > en tanto sirve de mediación en una polaridad, relación ternaria).
> > > > > > > Un caso particular de estas categorías se refiere a la sintaxis
> > > > > > > (lenguaje), la semántica (modelos) y la pragmática
> > > > > > > (transferencias).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > En el caso actual de la pandemia que
> > > > > > > vive el mundo (abril 2020), sobresalen algunos aspectos centrales
> > > > > > > desde un punto de vista filosófico, metodológico y matemático.
> > > > > > > Ante todo, resalta (A) la universalidad del fenómeno: rompe con
> > > > > > > cualquier tipo de distinción nacional y con cualquier tipo de
> > > > > > > estratificación social. A todos afecta y todos la sufren. Por
> > > > > > > supuesto, los más vulnerables (económica o físicamente) la
> > > > > > > sufrirán más, pero la pandemia cubre un espectro social muy
> > > > > > > amplio. Es plenamente tercera en el sentido de Peirce y media
> > > > > > > entre todos los seres humanos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Esto conlleva unas directrices éticas
> > > > > > > básicas, que ojalá sirvan en el futuro para construir sociedades
> > > > > > > más equilibradas, allende el capitalismo salvaje (primeridad
> > > > > > > exacerbada) que ha venido destruyendo el mundo en las últimas
> > > > > > > décadas. No es ningún azar que los populistas tipo Trump,
> > > > > > > Bolsonaro o Johnson hayan querido reducir la importancia del
> > > > > > > fenómeno.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > La primera directriz es la
> > > > > > > importancia de luchar contra el egoísmo: la terceridad y la
> > > > > > > universalidad conllevan un darse a los demás, un pensar allende
> > > > > > > singularidades aisladas (primeridad). Es fascinante observar cómo
> > > > > > > el “yo”, un “en-sí” de muchas maneras repugnante, desaparece a
> > > > > > > favor del “en-múltiple”, de las redes de apoyo entre los
> > > > > > > individuos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > La segunda directriz, correlacionada
> > > > > > > estrechamente con la primera, es la importancia de ser
> > > > > > > solidarios: cuidarnos a nosotros mismos es cuidar de los demás, y
> > > > > > > viceversa (de ahí el valor de los confinamientos). Dentro de esa
> > > > > > > línea solidaria, es hermoso ver cómo, en tiempos de dolor y de
> > > > > > > crisis, las comunidades se ayudan entre sí para superar duras
> > > > > > > condiciones de subsistencia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Luego, sobresale (B) la integralidad
> > > > > > > sintética del fenómeno. Allende la arbitrariedad de las
> > > > > > > informaciones y los abusos del lenguaje (caso paradigmático,
> > > > > > > USA), la única solución posible parece ser una actuación
> > > > > > > colectiva correlativa (pragmática), donde todas las partes, desde
> > > > > > > los individuos hasta las instituciones, trabajen mancomunadamente
> > > > > > > hacia un fin bien definido. Acá se observa la importancia de
> > > > > > > actuaciones coherentes a nivel de mandatorios locales, como el
> > > > > > > Gobernador Cuomo en New York, o como la alcadesa López en Bogotá.
> > > > > > > En esos casos, las directrices están bien estructuradas
> > > > > > > (terceridad, a favor de todos), aunque muchos individuos
> > > > > > > indisciplinados (primeridad) rompan el patrón trazado. Los
> > > > > > > centenares de miles de muertos que se avecinan en USA serán el
> > > > > > > trágico ejemplo de una actuación profundamente insolidaria. Al
> > > > > > > opuesto, el cuidado colectivo conseguido en Taiwan debería ser
> > > > > > > tomado como modelo a seguir.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Como se ve, un uso elemental de las
> > > > > > > categorías peirceanas nos lleva a pensar en el bien común, muy
> > > > > > > por encima del bien individual. Es una cuestión de supervivencia.
> > > > > > > Ojalá las tragedias que produzca la pandemia sirvan a las nuevas
> > > > > > > generaciones para orientar mejor el futuro, un porvenir que debe
> > > > > > > pasar ante todo por el aprecio múltiple de los demás, para solo
> > > > > > > llegar luego al bienestar de los individuos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > fernandozala...@gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > Brief report on the pandemic from a
> > > > > > Peircean triadic perspective.
> > > > > > Fernando Zalamea
> > > > > > National University of Colombia
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the architecture of knowledge of Charles
> > > > > > Sanders Peirce (USA, 1839-1914), three universal categories govern
> > > > > > the phenomena: firstness (what is as such, monadic predicate),
> > > > > > secondness (what is insofar as it correlates with another,
> > > > > > relationship binary) and thirdness (which is insofar as it mediates
> > > > > > a polarity, a ternary relationship). A particular case of these
> > > > > > categories refers to syntax (language), semantics (models) and
> > > > > > pragmatics (transferences, transactions?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the current case of the world pandemic
> > > > > > (April 2020), some central aspects stand out from a philosophical,
> > > > > > methodological and mathematical point of view. Above all, (A) it
> > > > > > highlights the universality of the phenomenon: it breaks with any
> > > > > > type of national distinction and with any type of social
> > > > > > stratification. It affects everyone and everyone suffers it. Of
> > > > > > course, the most vulnerable (financially or physically) will suffer
> > > > > > the most, but the pandemic covers a very broad social spectrum. It
> > > > > > is fully third in the Peirce sense of being in the midst of all
> > > > > > human beings.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This entails basic ethical guidelines,
> > > > > > which hopefully will serve in the future to build more balanced
> > > > > > societies, beyond the savage capitalism (exacerbated firstness)
> > > > > > that has been destroying the world in recent decades. It is no
> > > > > > coincidence that populists like Trump, Bolsonaro or Johnson have
> > > > > > wanted to minimize the importance of the phenomenon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The first guideline is the importance of
> > > > > > fighting against selfishness: thirdness and universality involve
> > > > > > giving oneself to others, thinking beyond isolated singularities
> > > > > > (firstness). It is fascinating to observe how the “I”, a repugnant
> > > > > > “in-itself” in many ways, disappears in favor of the “multiple,” of
> > > > > > the support networks between individuals.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The second guideline, closely correlated
> > > > > > with the first, is the importance of being supportive: caring for
> > > > > > ourselves is caring for others, and vice versa (hence, the value of
> > > > > > self-confinement). Within this line of solidarity, it is beautiful
> > > > > > to see how, in times of pain and crisis, communities help each
> > > > > > other to overcome harsh living conditions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then, (B) the synthetic integrality of the
> > > > > > phenomenon stands out. Beyond the arbitrariness of information and
> > > > > > the abuse of language (paradigmatic case, USA), the only possible
> > > > > > solution seems to be a correlative (pragmatic) collective action,
> > > > > > where all parties, from individuals to institutions, work together
> > > > > > towards a well-defined end result. Here we see the importance of
> > > > > > coherent actions at the level of local high officials, such as
> > > > > > Governor Cuomo in New York, or Mayor López in Bogotá. In these
> > > > > > cases, the guidelines are well structured (third party, in
> > > > > > everyone's favor), although many undisciplined individuals (first
> > > > > > party) break the established pattern. The hundreds of thousands of
> > > > > > deaths looming in the USA will be the tragic example of deeply
> > > > > > unsupportive action. On the contrary, the collective care achieved
> > > > > > in Taiwan should be taken as a role model.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As can be seen, an elemental use of the
> > > > > > Peircean categories leads us to think about the common good, far
> > > > > > above the individual good. It is a matter of survival. Hopefully
> > > > > > the tragedies caused by the pandemic will serve new generations in
> > > > > > better guiding us toward the future, a future that must first of
> > > > > > all pass the appreciative assent of many, only to later reach the
> > > > > > well-being of actual individuals.
> > > > > > fernandozala...@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Time is not a renewable resource." gnox
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gary Richmond
> > > > > > Philosophy and Critical Thinking
> > > > > > Communication Studies
> > > > > > LaGuardia College of the City University of
> > > > > > New York
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Blocked image]
> > > > > > http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> > > > > > Virus-free. www.avg.com
> > > > > > http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
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