Justin Schwartz replies 6/8 to my suggestion that the distress of some urban poor people has to do with, in his words, "this mysterious collapse of character," that this amounts to >dismiss[ing] the possibility that it has anything to do with de-industrialization, the collapse of unionism, capital export, engineered unemployment, or institutional racism. He is astonished to hear suggested that >Merely economic facts cannot explain moral blight. And states as obviously true that >If we were to take this proposition seriously, we would have to show that the factors I mention don't cause moral and other havoc and that the message of the '60s, as Etchison reads it, was influential in the way that s/he [it's "Michael," male] suggests. He writes, "This is one too many for me," to which I guess I can only respond that his next sentence is at least one too _few_ for me. "De-industrialization, the collapse of unionism, capital export, engineered unemployment, or institutional racism" all have something to do with it _also_. I suspect that he and I would draw the arrows of causation in different directions, and he did notice that I did mention institutional racism after all. I agree that at least some aspects of the relative shrinkage of the industrial sector bore more heavily on some urban poor than on some others, but I probably a) would place the responsibility for that elsewhere than he, b) would find both causes and effects more complex and complexly interrelated than he, and c) would look elsewhere for an understanding of what could sensibly be done about it. The immediate point is, however, that Schwartz's colorful -- and fresh, 35 years ago -- list of villains is unacceptably reduced and reductionist. > I can't even imagine how to test such a proposition. As a way to start, Schwartz might temporarily set aside any a priori sense of obligation to test a putatively empirical hypothesis in only one way -- that's very old scientism, out of favor among the real intellectual elite for some time now -- and try something like this: Is it easier to see a connection between his indicia of desolation -- drugs and prostitution -- and, on his version, declining union membership, or on mine, "Sex! Drugs! And Rock and Roll!"? Schwartz says he is "too young for the 60s" [he was not alive? not sentient? not adult? It really does make a difference], which I take to mean that his revolutionary enthusiasm was learned from mentors. Bad news, Mr. Schwartz -- it was, in my reading, at least partially the responsibility of your mentors (my cohort) that we are in the plight we are in. We used to say that we would never trust anyone over 30, until we discovered that we had become the elders. That the post-60s generation is unable to imagine fault among its mentors is, however perversely, satisfying to us as we age, but it does not make for very prudent analysis. >the message I seem to have got from [the 60s] was a bit different: that the authorities lie, kill, and steal, that capitalism crushes the human spirit, that organized resistance is possible, if very difficult, and a source of regeneration and hope, as well as a school for democracy and, indeed, character. How come that message, the message of the Port Huron Statement and the early SNCC, the Vietnam War Resistance, and the women's and gay and lesbian liberation movements, as well as the radical labor insurgencies of the late 60's and early '70s, didn't take? Indeed, "the authorities lie, kill, and steal." That is why it is so important not only that participation in political decision-making be as coextensive as possible with those able responsibly to participate, but that the power of those "in authority" be narrowly circumscribed, as those earlier revolutionaries, Publius and the Philadelphia Gang observed. Does "capitalism" crush the spirit? If you simply equate all that is crushing with capitalism, the answer is easy. But the urge to exploit, to crush the human spirit, has always been with us. Capitalism is, among many other things, a way of thinking about and carrying out material and other transactions, and a great many of those who formed it participated because they believed that it made it harder for oppression, tyranny, and, yes, poverty to occur. One may end up concluding that those participants were mistaken or deluded or undone by false consciousness, but that conclusion must be earned by a serious study, not by an unacknowledgely nostalgic flailing of 35-year-old banners. "Organized resistance" is possible, but difficult. The sort of resistance romanticized by the SDS (did I hear anyone add the Michigan Militia to the list?) is indeed difficult, because most sensible folks believe the game not to be worth the candle. The ones who "win" revolutions seem, from 1789 on, to be largely the revolutionaries (and not all of them). Revolutions make it awfully hard to raise kids, to bring in crops, to get Kleenex into the stores, to walk safely down the street. "The message of the Port Huron Statement and the early SNCC," and the rest, did take, contrary to Schwartz's rhetorical question. The message was that someone who wanted to make his life better, his family's life better, his community better, must look to the government. Only political power, the message was, was any use. Character had nothing to do with it. Or did it? Michael Etchison [opinions mine, not the PUCT's]