Antonio writes: >>. I would ask all of the people with whom we have been having a discussion to disassociate themselves from these attacks and to condemn them. << Sure, I'll absolutely condemn the personal attacks on leftist professors that have shown up on pen-l. Such attacks don't belong on pen-l. I also apologize again to Rhon Baiman for my own slur that inadvertently (or rather due to my own absent-mindedness) showed up on pen-l. I also think it's unproductive of good conversation to call someone a "less-than-gentleman." That said, I have a comment. I notice something in the above quote and in other things that Antonio (and Steve) have said. Perhaps it's my own inability to do literary analysis (;-)), but I sure get the feeling that rather than being a discussion of the pros and cons of postmodern Marxism (which is what I had been thinking it was), it's only a small piece of a larger totality. There's some sort of war that's been going on for a long time. It's not just about postmodern Marxism vs. the other types of Marxism and leftist thought that are in circulation. It's not just about stereotyped pomo vs. stereotyped "traditional Marxism" (which should be plural, shouldn't it?) Rather, there's a large amount of personal animosity that's accumulated over the years, linked to old battles at U.Mass-Amherst (the nature of which I have just the barest inkling). I don't really understand that animosity, but that's one of my blindspots. This hypothesis explains why Rhon B.'s cavalier and seemingly off-the-wall comments provoked more heat than required. Or why my efforts to get a handle on what "postmodern Marxism" is exactly are ignored. Or why my profession of ignorance (not knowing "Derrida from dogfood") gets interpreted as an _attack_, seemingly justifying skipping over the rest of my missive. Or why Doug's silly reposting of an article about identity politics was not interpreted as an effort to be humorous. Or why the quote from Antonio above (and some of his recent messages) suggests that the anti-pomotistas (or those who have doubts about postmodern Marxism) are some sort of unified force. But again, I may be over-interpreting. Or maybe the problem is simply that e-mail makes communications more difficult, so that we have to use emoticons (smileys) as much as possible. Or maybe we should avoid all humor, sarcasm, irony, etc. in pen-l solidarity, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount Univ. 7900 Loyola Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90045-8410 USA 310/338-2948 (daytime, during workweek); FAX: 310/338-1950 "It takes a busload of faith to get by." -- Lou Reed.