RE this discussion of Marx's theory of the interest rate. I've been considering recently the notion of "averages" in Marx's theory and its possible relationship to the notion of "averages" in mid-19th century statistical theory. Here are some not-too-well-thought-out ideas related to that which might reflect on the interest rate discussion. First, Marx was aware of then-current writing on statistics and read in 1851 one of the key statistical works by Quetelet. Not suprisingly, Marx took extensive notes on this book (but what didn't Marx read and take notes on!) Second, Marx invokes this same Quetelet in Capital's discussion of "average labor-power" (in the very first part of vol 1, chapter 13: Co-operation, Vintage edition). Marx's discussion here shows a notion of means and random errors: "These individual differences, or 'errors' as they are called in mathematics, compensate each other and vanish whenever a certain minimum number of workers are employed together." What does this have to do with interest rates, etc? Well, my impression is that Marx accepted a key component of 19th century statistical theory and social theory: that averages found in society were NOT the result of individual actions but were the products of society. Society determined norms and individuals 'deviated' from these norms. (The notion of "standard deviation" was directly related to the idea of "norms"). More precisely, it appears that 19th century statisticians and many social theorists accepted that an individual's behavior (or, more generally, any average of aggregate behavior) was expressed as: X(i) = NORM + deviation(i). That is, society determined the norm, but individuals have some measure of free will to deviate from the norm. Importantly, explaining the mean (or the NORM) required invoking society, culture, or the economy. It did not involve invoking individuals or accidents which only explained deviations from the norm. More precisely, as regards Marx, averages and temporal changes in averages were explained by reference to social forces and not by reference to individuals or accidents. If I'm right about the above, then the interest rate would have been determined in Marx's theory by some social force and not by simple individual interactions or supply/demand related to accidental factors. But, then again, I might be wrong. That is, the interest rate for, say, an individual lender might be r(i) = X + deviation(i) where X is determined by some underlying social force that has its origins apart from individual market participants' actions. Restatement: discussions of Marx's notion of "average" in the current day might not take into account 19th century perspectives on this term. Instead, we might bring to the table notions that are anachronistic: the connotations of "average" to us might be quite different to the connotations of "average" to Marx. In the spirit of historicism, Eric .. Eric Nilsson Department of Economics California State University San Bernardino, CA 92407 [EMAIL PROTECTED]