Right on Maggie, not surprising, you understood completely what I was saying. Maybe it's a "girl thing" -- ok, yes, that is a joke guys. There is in fact, another action which women (and some men too take) which is to have "off line," private discussions. A colleague of mine (yes, I admit to having been in computing science at one point in my life) did her dissertation of computer conferencing networks, and found exactly what you said Maggie, that women's comments were ignored, or only taken up later when some male stated them (without attribution). Anyway, before the lads get all self-conscious (we should be so lucky) I was just trying to comment on my perception about the lack of women's participation on Pen-L (which I believe is a problem, and yes I do recognize that I have a role as do the rest of you in trying to change that). From personal observation and past practice I think it is the style of debate. While I agree with Doug, that there is much worse than Pen-L, I'm not sure that's relevent. Do we really want to get into a pissing match about which conference has the least constructive discourse? So, what can be done? Well, you can't change personalities -- mine included, I cut jokes at funerals. But I guess it is being aware that written comments come across much harder and categoric than most people intend. The problem with computer conferences is that we write as if we are talking, so it tends to be much more spontaneous, and loose, and yet, ultimately its read, so that its taken much more seriously and without the modification of verbal voice clues that hints at humor, irony or sarcasm. Elaine Bernard
