Maggie and all, Please, please, please -- whoa. I didn't mean to start a conflagration here. My intent was simply to suggest that we -- myself included -- sometimes don't pay enough attention to what has already been written. I have a great deal of respect for all your postings and look forward to meeting you and others in Chicago in January, or those who are there. I confess, however, that I have always been a bit out of step with terms like pomo. I do not disagree with what you say below, and certainly have no truck with those who dismiss arguments from any quarter. The old ad hominum approach. As far as Ivory Tower -- ask anyone on my campus where I stand on those sorts of things. I'm currently _very_ active in the union, both on a campus and statewide level. I'm an ex-Teamster. I've also been a commercial fisherman for 5 years as captain of a 75-foot trawler, working out of Oregon. However, I also am bothered by the fact that I seem to have been labeled guilty from the start. That may be a function of the fact that I don't have a lot of time to post on the PEN-L list and so tend not to have my views known. I hope this helps clarify -- I really don't want to start anything here. Larry Shute Thanks for your message at 10:08 PM 9/19/97 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your message was: >Larry; I no where suggest that some marxists have not written on ideas that >are considered pomo today. However, regardless of the excellent work >produced by some marxists--the actuality of left movements in the USA has >been to pit those who see demographic issues of race and gender as primary >against those who see class as primary. This is unfortunate. And, I truly >feel that the work of one or two academic men incorporating issues of >diversity (EVEN women's liberation, oh my) does not do enough to examine the >realities of class, gender, and race in the USA--regardless of how good that >work is. It seems to me that this antagonism has been continued by those who >label themselves as marxist by continuing to dismiss the work of current >writers, almost all labelled as pomo, as either irrelevant or having been >done before. It's a very ivory tower attitude for academics who profess to >trying to build mass movements. maggie coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In a message dated 97-09-18 14:32:18 EDT, you write: > >>Maggie and all, >> >>At Columbia University, from the 1930's until his death in the late 1950's >>(1958?), the Marxist sociologist and anthropologist Bernard J. Stern -- who >>gave the journal "Science and Society" its name -- taught graduate courses >>in Social Class. Perhaps also at the New School, where he also taught.. >>He always carefully and explicitly pointed out that _within_ different >>social classes, there were different _strata_. He spent a great deal of >>time examining the differences in their thinking, etc. In some respects, >>pomo may have been simply "thinking things up rather than looking them up" >>-- the absence of training in the history of ideas. Some of his work was >>later collected in a volume titled _Historical Sociology_ (I think, the >>book is at home). Stern had all his books banned from State Dept. >>Libraries overseas by McCarthy, etc. Stern was also a supporter of womens' >>rights, and wrote a piece on the position of women in historical society >>for the Encyclopaedia of the Social Sciences. In that piece, he clearly >>points out many gender and class differences, etc. >> >>Larry Shute >> >>Thanks for your message at 06:00 PM 9/17/97 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your >>message was: >>>In a message dated 97-09-17 12:12:02 EDT, you write: >>> >>>>So the task for non-rigid Marxians and other socialists is to >>>>take the insights of postmodernism (about language, about the construction >>>>of subjects) and move beyond them - to devise a non-vulgar >foundationalism, >>>>and to rethink class as the fully complex thing it is. Post-Sokal >>>>exuberance is no excuse to think the old verities have now been >>>>self-evidently restored. >>>> >>>>Doug >>> >>>I've often thought that pomo has significant insights--the problem being >>>finding the insights amongst the dreck. One thing pomo has done, well in a >>>few cases, and poorly in many, is to begin describing the contradictions >>>within classes and groupings, rather than seeing classes as the proverbial >>>black boxes--once tagged, acting exactly the same all the time. Mao's >>>leadership genius in China (NOT to suggest that Mao was a pomo) was his >>>interweaving of Marxism with Chinese culture and the existing class >>structure >>>with all its contradictions--not the layering of theoretically pre-defined >>>classes on existing cultural structures. In looking at the United States >(as >>>the place I have the most knowledge of), I think the value of some pomo >>>research has been to gather raw data on inner-class divisions which can be >>>used to strengthen class analysis so that it actually reflects the culture >>of >>>the United States. To grow functioning resistance movements, and combat the >>>deep divisions within communities, it is really necessary to understand how >>>class, race, ethnicity, and gender interact. >>>maggie coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> >> >>----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >>Received: from mrin74.mail.aol.com (mrin74.mail.aol.com [152.163.116.112]) >>by air15.mail.aol.com (V32) with SMTP; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:32:17 -0400 >>Received: from anthrax.ecst.csuchico.edu (anthrax.ecst.csuchico.edu >>[132.241.9.84]) >> by mrin74.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) >> with ESMTP id OAA20776; >> Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:31:41 -0400 (EDT) >>Received: from anthrax (localhost [127.0.0.1]) >> by anthrax.ecst.csuchico.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA02922; >> Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:30:32 -0700 (PDT) >>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:30:32 -0700 (PDT) >>Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Originator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Precedence: bulk >>From: Laurence Shute <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: [PEN-L:12445] Re: POMO on Social Classes >>X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >>X-Comment: Progressive Economics >> >> > > >
