At the end of my reply to Colin Danby (previous message) I remarked, "I would also submit that you are trying to make from Marx's writings a 'marxian economics', which is not at all how I read it." On reflection, I realize that expanding on this one comment could have been sufficient to answer Colin's questions in their entirety. Colin's questions, posed as he put it "from the other side of the transformation problem", are framed (it seems to me) by an intention to justify a "marxian economics" as an analytical approach within economics, which is in turn seen as a positive science. For marxian economics to make the grade, it must be capable of generating predictions about the objects of economics -- price, cost, rate of profit, rate of investment, growth in total output, etc. >From my perspective, such an enterprise is paradoxical. My understanding of Marxism is that it constitutes a historical world view incorporating a critique of political economy. As an historical world view, Marxism has more in common with, say, Buddhism, Calvinism, Positivism or Existentialism than it does with Post-Keynsianism or neo-classicism. I should mention that I don't consider myself a "Marxist" in the strict sense that I don't believe the Marxist historical world view has somehow "surpassed" other historical world views. It seems to me that the path from being a critique of political economy to becoming a positive economic science in its own right is a twisted one. If the function of a critique is to show why the results of political economic investigation are *necessarily* inconclusive, then it seems quixotic to search, within the terms of that critique, for a method of analysis that will produce conclusive results -- calculable predictions. I resisted using the term "vulgar", because of its perjorative connotations. "It depends on the circumstances of the class struggle" is not a prediction. Yet this is the premise that underlies Marx's radical indeterminacy in Capital and it returns as the result of his investigations. Political economy is founded on the phantasmagoria in which relations between people *appear* to be relations between things. Thus it is a fetish to attempt to calculate the state of relations between things at time two based entirely on the relations between things at time one as affected by some specified vector of change. To the extent that marxian economics needs to bracket out the fetishism of commodities, it cannot properly call itself Marxist. In closing, I'd like to reiterate that the call for limiting the working day is not based on economic theory, it is based on an historical argument. That historical argument includes a critique of political economy that is useful in showing the mendacity of "economic" arguments against limiting the working day. But it cannot -- and doesn't need to -- generate economic arguments in favour of limiting the working day. This would be like asking Jonathan Swift what are the economic arguments against eating Irish infants. If Colin Danby agrees that limiting the working day would be, intrinsicly, a good thing but thinks it is nevertheless necessary to have strictly economic arguments in favour of limiting the working day, I encourage him to develop those arguments. As Colin said, "There are a lot of possible stories." I've already decided what kinds of stories I believe are going to be fruitful. Regards, Tom Walker ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ knoW Ware Communications | Vancouver, B.C., CANADA | "Though I may be sent to Hell for it, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | such a God will never command my respect." (604) 688-8296 | - John Milton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The TimeWork Web: http://mindlink.net/knowware/worksite.htm