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COLSPAN=3D2 HEIGHT=3D20> </TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH=3D580 ALIGN=3DLEFT VALIGN=3DTOP COLSPAN=3D2> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial" SIZE=3D"5">Topic: What Cost Prosperity?</F= ONT><BR> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> fortune-sysop - </STRONG>created 11:00am Apr 22, 1998 EST</FONT> </TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH=3D430 ALIGN=3DLEFT VALIGN=3DTOP> <HR NOSHADE> <!-- Display topic body --> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial">Our discussion on trade policy has drift= ed to a discussion on the cost imposed on individuals and society as they= cope with economic pressures. Some of those topics are picked up in this= thread.</FONT> </FONT> <HR NOSHADE> </TD> <TD WIDTH=3D150 ALIGN=3DRIGHT VALIGN=3DTOP> = <a href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"><img src=3D"http://w= ww.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/button_feedback.gif" border=3D0 alt= =3D"Feedback To Host" WIDTH=3D109 HEIGHT=3D22></a><br> = = <a href=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/fortune"><IMG SRC=3D"http://www.= pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/returnto_fortune.gif" BORDER=3D0 ALT=3D= "Return to Fortune" WIDTH=3D109></A><BR> = = = = </TD> </TR> </TABLE> <!-- restore original path --> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <a href=3D"/cgi-bin/webx?14@^1228746@.ee8bad2/0"><img hspace=3D0 align=3D= top alt=3D"Earliest Messages" border=3D0 src=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com= /boards/webx_images/smtotop.gif" WIDTH=3D68 HEIGHT=3D15></a><a href=3D"/c= gi-bin/webx?7@^1228746@.ee8bad2/9"><img hspace=3D0 align=3Dtop alt=3D"Pre= vious Messages" border=3D0 src=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_i= mages/smprev.gif" WIDTH=3D68 HEIGHT=3D15></a><a href=3D"/cgi-bin/webx?14@= ^1228746@.ee8bad2"><img hspace=3D0 align=3Dtop alt=3D"Recent Messages" bo= rder=3D0 src=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/smrecent.gif= " WIDTH=3D68 HEIGHT=3D15></a> (10 previous messages)<hr width=3D200 alig= n=3Dleft></FONT> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> Bobbyc</STRONG> - 09:57pm Apr 26, 1998 EST (#<a href=3D= "../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1228746@.ee8bad2/10">11</a> of 12) <p> Meredith writes: = <p><blockquote><tt>One character marker that I look for in offering encou= ragement and assistance to people is their propensity to assign blame to = others. As soon as I see something that says "I'm not responsible for wha= t happened in my life" I swerve out of the way. If you go back and look a= t a lot of the postings everywhere on the Internet, you see that this is = what most people are saying. </blockquote></tt>Do you think there is a di= fference between enabling people to continue making bad choices, and help= ing people who have made bad choices? = <p>Let me throw out a few unrelated stories that I have came across in th= e last few days. = <p>A neighbor, who is in her 70's recently had a positive Pap test. She = is a widow who works because she has to. Her deceased husband died an al= coholic. She is one of the most frugal people I know. To get into the h= ospital she had to prepay $800 (using her charge card, in addition to Med= icare) she is also charging her prescriptions. I don't know how she will = make the payments. = My wife picked her up at the hospital, and has been helping her with thin= gs like food and errands. = <p>A couple of days ago my niece (9) accidently shot her brother (12) i= n the eye when she picked up a BB gun. He is now blind in one eye. If t= hey had insurance it was minimal. They own a small restaurant and are in= over there head. = <p>According to the Center for Disease Control Traffic accidents are the = number one cause of work related death, homicide is number 2, and machine= ry related accidents are now number 3. = <p>Asthma cases have risen 75% since 1980, says the CDC, pollution and en= vironmental factors are blamed. Asthma related hospital visits are highe= st in the North East. = <p>GE and the EPA are apparently at war in Western Mass. A town that use= d to make transformers is badly polluted with PCB's. The EPA is telling = people to mow there grass when it is wet and not let the kids play outsid= e more then 3 days a week. The dirt and dust is several thousand times t= he legal limit. People can't sell their homes so they are stuck there. = = <p>GE climes that animal studies do not prove that PCP's that effected an= imals will also effect humans (but they wore full protective clothing whi= le doing surveys) . They don't want to clean it up. (Does this sound any= thing like Tobacco?) = <p>A company was recently charged with endangering the lives of several w= orkers. They apparently brought several transients from Kentucky and Ten= nessee to remove asbestos from an old factory in Wisconsin. The workers = were not given any protective clothing, masks or training. Apparently th= e company falsified the workers SS numbers to get around training require= ments. It seems the only reason they were caught is they didn't pay the = workers. = <p>It strikes me that much of what is going on in the world is a new vers= ion of the old divide and conquer. It is really the widening gap between= rich and poor that have caused some major events in the last 200 years. = = <p>Consider the French Revolution, the guillotine and Marie's "Let them e= at cake" = <p>Germany blaming the Jews for Germanies finical plight. They tried to = solve the problem with concentration camps. (They were really after the m= oney.) = <p>The finical crises in Indonesia has apparently put the ethnic Chinese = at risk. They apparently compare favorably, or unfavorable, depending on= your view, with the German Jews. My guess is that President Suherto wou= ld sell them out in a heartbeat, if he thought it was in his best interes= t. = <p>Why do you think the government is going after tobacco? (True they ha= ve been lying for years.) The bottom line is - that is where the money i= s, their a minority, and a lot of people have become accustomed to and l= ike working in Washington. = <p> Some how we need to find a way to make a distinction between enabling= bad behavior (such as drugs or just plane lazy) and people who really ne= ed some help. = <p>The other day I was reading news reports about a couple of Texas polit= icians who want to cut taxes now that we have a budget surplus. I wond= er if they read a recent WSJ - NBC Poll? = <p>70% of Americans favor using the budget surplus to aid SS. = <p>66% Back raising rasing tax on benefits for high income recipients. = <p>63% would let people put some SS money in private investments. = <p>86% Oppose cutting SS benefits. = <p>56% Oppose raising retirement age to 67 sooner then planed. = <p>There is a proposal to cut SS cost of living . As I understand it, ha= d they did that 20 years ago, people retiring then would be living on abo= ut 10% less today. Recently a major nursing home tried to get rid of pat= ients who had ran out of money. Could this be a new trend? = <p>Programing and other computer related jobs are growing, I am seriously= considering getting back into it. It is growing in importance but it ha= s to be recognized for what it is - overhead. It is hard to think of you= r self as overhead. I know I have been there for years. When things get= tight - overhead is the first thing to go.<br> </FONT> <hr width=3D200 align=3Dleft><FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> sturch</STRONG> - 10:00pm Apr 26, 1998 EST (#<a href=3D= "../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1228746@.ee8bad2/11">12</a> of 12) <p> Meredith, even if BobbyC didn't make it past grade school he has some val= id points on the deterioration of our living standards and morality level= s in 1980's and 90's compared to the decades following WW 2. = <p>In the "good old days" mother's could raise their children on their hu= sband's salary. My mother never held a 9 to 5 job while my father was ali= ve. = <p>Today we have children killing other children/teachers at school prima= rily due to lack of parental guidance and attention. As President Clinton= points out the danger time for kids getting into trouble is the end of t= he school day, and when Mommy and Daddy finally arrive home from work. Ev= en then,the parents are too tired to spend quality time with their childr= en. = <p>When I started working for a Fortune 500 company in 1972, we had a CEO= who truly cared about his employees. When I early retired in 1995 the CE= O's nickname was "The Destroyer". Sadly, this label fit too many executiv= es in the 90's who sacrificed employees for the bottom line and their own= wallets. = <p>imho, we are a nation of haves and have nots. If you are a have, you c= an view the bitchers as those who blame others for their misery in life, = and maybe worry a tad about someone shooting you on the freeway or some p= arking lot in your BMW. Another scenario that didn't exist in my youth. = <p>Prosperity ain't wife and husband working two or more jobs to pay the = minimum monthly due amount on too many credit card bills. It ain't gobs o= f jobs paying less than $ 8 bucks per hour with zero benefits. It ain't w= orrying constantly that a Chainsaw Al mentality in the executive suite ma= y soon ax YOUR job or create a hamburger machine to eliminate the human e= lement. = <p>I blame the WASP guys at the top of Corporate America who are making = $ 10,000 per hour for being greedy, first class jerks. Call me poorly edu= cated, an unmotivated seeker of wealth or whatever suits your fancy.<br> </FONT> <BR><HR WIDTH=3D500 ALIGN=3D"LEFT" NOSHADE> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial" SIZE=3D3>Want to post a message? 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