In response to Robin Hahnel, Justin Schwartz wrote: With regard to your point below, I understand that your model does not require participation. But that results in a different problem. This is that those who do take advantage of the opportunities to participate in the planning have their preferences count for more than those who do not. This tends to favor the sociable, the argumentative, and those who have time to do it--a factor which militates against parents in particular (I am one). You may say, well, it's no different from voting, those who don't vote, aren't counted. But participatory planning is a lot more time and skill-intensive than voting. Voting is relatively costless and anyone can do it. Speaking at meetings, taking responsibility for getting things done, etc. are costly and require a special personality as well as time. COMMENT: After a fashion the preferences of those who do not participate in planning do count since their preferences are not to participate. As to voting being relatively costless and hence not comparable, it is also possible to make greater use of referenda as part of planning and this is a form of voting. In the electronic age this should (eventually) be relatively easy. Forcing people to participate certainly does not seem the answer since it would produce donkey participation just as compulsory voting produces donkey voting--for example picking the first name on the ballot. Certainly conditions should be made favorable for anyone who desires to participate in planning to be able to do so (not just the formal right to do so) but equally important is that participation be informed. Talk of preferences per se recalls the deity-like status given to these in traditional welfare economics and in liberal ideology of the individual. There are after all preferences for children as sex objects, prefferences for child labor, preferences to put out contracts on opponents, adaptive preferences, etc. etc. Should these count equally. If not then you had better start developing some ethical thinking that puts preferences in their proper place, namely as part of ideological baggage of liberal capitalism and its deductive theology masquerading as a science of welfare economics. Talk of preferences serve as a convenient cover for arguments to the effect that in a market people get to choose and so avoid the "dictatorship" of the commmunity , the intelligent, or whomever and preserves freedom of the individual as contrasted to the road to serfdom of planning .. Talk of a dictatorship where everyone has a right and opportunity to participate is inappopriate in any event. If people allow decisions to made for them this may be undesirable in some situations but when the means for preventing exist and are more than formal it is their own fault. In the vast majority of situations the vast majority of people will probably not want to be involved. If there are problems then they will want to act, and surely then there should be mechanisms for critical feedback into the system. This would replace market exit, with critical voice as control on any attempted market dictators just as market exit helps to control production that is not wanted by consumers. CHeers,Ken Hanly