Ethnic nationalism is just a fact. Rejecting the idea doesn't in itself change that. I reject the idea of capitalism but so far global capitalism doesn't seem to have taken much notice. Almost all nations are ethnically diverse and yet manage to function as nations reasonably well and keep ethnic conflict to a tolerable level. There is no ethnic cleansing but there are movements out of neighbourhoods by Y group when an N group member comes in etc.etc.etc. There are kids of X ethnicity who go wild and shoot at random members of Y, Z ethnic groups plus other categories. But the situation in Kosovo has gone far beyond anything like that. When the situation has gone this far I just don't think that anything except one state that is by and large made up of ethnic Albanians and another state made up primarily of Serbs seems likely to result in some degree of peace. Alternatives would involve a massive third party presence having extensive powers of control and no guarantees that it will work. If the two parties were to agree to such a situation then fine, try it out. To be effective though, the KLA would be required to disarm and the Serbs to withdraw all their troops, police, and paramilitary. Perhaps the two sides would trust some type of international peace keeping force but I am sceptical. I don't reject that as a solution I just am wary of the international peace keepers becoming architects of a new Kosovo planned according to the New World Order and not giving too hoots about the KLA or the Serb nationalists. We have already seen in Bosnia elected leaders turfed out of office since they were not acceptable to SFOR (or whatever it is called). There is also talk of gerrymandering constituencies, forcing an ethnic mix so that ethnic nationalists cannot get elected. The same logic of imposing from above constraints upon the democratic process was evident in Rambouillet. No one who is being indicted or has been found guilty of a war crime will be allowed to run for office. Of course, if there were rules of international fairness Clinton then would not be able to run for office and many other leaders such as the late Winston Churchill. One groups war criminal is another groups hero. All the peacekeepers have to do is dig up a bit of dirt on any popular nationalist they don't like and pass it on to Louise Arbour, preferably with the TV cameras rolling. I know that drawing the borders may be difficult. If it can't be done then try something else. However it seems to me that in solving disputes you must provide something for both parties, recognize their interest, and the parties must recognise the solution as preferable to continued conflict. I think that it is at least possible that a solution along the lines suggested allow this. Certainly in terms of the principle of the self-determination of peoples the solution is preferable than to a top down protectorate that forces structures upon both parties. Although you reject division on the basis of ethnicity you don't elaborate much on what your positive solution would be like and how it could be implemented. Why should one ethnic group come out on the short end of the stick? If the ethnic Albanians fight for democratic rights and get them surely the first thing they would do is vote for an independent Kosova.I am certainly not as certain about the proper solution as I am that the present tack is very wrong. Anything that involves stopping the bombing and exploring diplomatic means is a plus. Cheers, Ken Hanly Jim Devine wrote: > At 05:27 PM 4/22/99 -0500, Ken wrote: > >My basic thought is this. It is going to be extremely difficult if not > impossible for a solution in which Serbs and ethnic Albanians live side by > side in the near future in Kosovo. The Albanians will want independence not > just autonomy. This is not acceptable to the Serbs. With partition, Serbs > would have control of at least part of their territory and would be free > from a civil war and conflict with the ethnic Albanians within that area. > The ethnic Albanians would get independence immediately and there would be > a place for refugees to settle. Parties should be free to settle where they > wish. I am not suggesting forced ethnic cleansing.< > > I think it's time to reject the whole idea of ethnic nationalism, i.e., > that each nation-state corresponds to a single ethnic group or a group of > tightly-linked ethnic groups. Given the confusing mess of cross-patches of > ethnicities that Barkley points to in the Balkans, along with the existence > of many individuals of mixed-ethnic background, don't you think it would be > better to simply junk ethnicity as a principle in politics, used to draw > boundaries? (Here in the US, that's a good idea: fight the idea of English > as the official language. And I can imagine what would have happened if > Chicago had split itself along ethnic boundaries back when I lived near > there.) Of course, that wouldn't end the oppression of ethnic Albanians by > Serbs (or vice-versa). But instead of fighting to have separate countries, > or even separate provinces, the ethnic groups that get the short end of the > stick should fight for democratic rights, the end of discrimination in jobs > and politics, and even for affirmative action and the like. The idea of > splitting a nation without both sides' consent simply encourages wars. > > Maybe they could pull off "cantonization" a la Switzerland, where different > language and ethnic groups have different cantons within a federation. But > to have this kind of system, you have to have some kind of unity against > the rest of the world, something the Balkan area lacks. > > I know that rejecting ethnicity is difficult. But it doesn't seem that much > more difficult than getting the Serbs and ethnic Albanian Kosovars to get > together to do the following: > > > As for the difficulty of drawing borders. That is primarily up to the > parties involved, the most an outsider could do is offer advice and mediate > inevitable disagreements. Who the hell are outside parties to be drawing > maps showing how land is to be divided? ...< > > Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & > http://clawww.lmu.edu/Faculty/JDevine/jdevine.html > Bombing DESTROYS human rights. US/NATO out of Serbia!