yes, i know the US has treated Cuba and other S.A. countries shabbily ever
since it became a world power. can't do much about that now, but we can now
leave them alone and let them "do it their way".
if we leave Cuba alone, and if Cuban per capita social indicators increase
faster than other countries, then i'd say "good job, Fidel; keep up the good
work"!
however, the fly in the ointment of Cuban achievements is the boat people
risking their lives heading for the US. if things are so good there, then
why risk life and limb to leave a good thing?
how about this as a "poor man's" social statistic: count the people in the
boats heading north across the Strait. if they decrease over time, then
things must be looking up in Cuba. if US boats start heading south, then
it's time the US adopted Fidel's system!
norm
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Schaap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:42 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:4401] Re: RE: Re: Re: Castro on US elections.
G'day Norman,
Can't help you with too many facts - perhaps Louis might come to the rescue.
But Cubans do enjoy universal health care (and, apparently, an impressively
vital research and development culture in the public health area), universal
public education (approaching 100% literacy), life expectancies comparable
to many western countries, and the Cuban poor (of which there are
unfortunately many) are not as poor as they are in comparable countries.
And there's the point.
Before we start comparing Cuba (with its colonial past) against the USA
(with its imperial past/present), we should perhaps ask how would the USA
have gone if it were a raped and pillaged colony until 1959, and invaded and
blockaded by a huge and aggressive neighbour ever since? Let's compare the
USA to all other world hegemons (which, of course, you can't - but that's
the point) and Cuba to all other brutalised erstwhile colonies cum
international pariahs! I am given to believe that Cuba compares extremely
well with all the 'democratic' countries in Latin America on all the big
material criteria.
So context before stats, eh?
Cheers,
Rob.
>to speak more accurately, i should compare per income quintiles btwn Cuba
>and US taking acount purchasing power parity. also, unemployment figures
>and other social indicators (crime, homeless, housing, etc.).
>
>anyone out there have those data for Cuba? if not, why not? wouldn't
Fidel
>want to publish favorable social indicators or is he too modest about it?
>
>before they arrive to prove me wrong, my guess is that US per capita income
>quintiles would all exceed those of Cuba. as for other social indicators,
>my guess is that US would exceed most, but not all.
>
>let's look at the facts - if they are available. engineers love facts!
>
>norm
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Justin Schwartz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 9:42 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [PEN-L:4240] Re: Re: Castro on US elections.
>
>
>I am not nearly as aggressive a defender of Cuba as Yoshie, and I am very
>concerned about the lack of democracy there--although I think it is
>perfectly understandable in the circumstances. I am also not as confident
as
>
>she that Cuba is socialist. But the notion that the poorest in the US--the
>_poorest__! thwe homeless crackheads and cripples who swarm the streets of
>Chicago, for example--are better off than Cuban doctors, lawyers, and
>professors is too many for me. Indeed, I think Yoshie, a grad student TA
>living on, what $10K a year is it?--might be rather more typical of many US
>intellectuals (as opposed to professionals like me--I'm a lawyer)--than
>Norm's afnatsies. Perhaps Norm means taht the working poor are better off
>than the Cuban middle class. But this is hard to measure. Take a family of
>four living on minimum wage work in Southside Chicago, making, what about
>$15K? Maybe it has a color TV set, and maybe someone in the Cuban middle
>class has to do with B&W. But it pays a lot more for its housing, which I
>guarantee you is as bad or worse; it has no health insurance; it has no
>retirement or pension, and these things are providedin Cuba. It has
accessto
>
>food taht is not rationed administratively, but taht is of little comfort
to
>
>it if it cannot afford that food, and you try feeding a family of four in
>Chiacgo on 15K. I do in the burbs, where food is cheaper--yes!--than in the
>inner city, and it costs me about $180 a week. That's a lot more than the
>southside family can afford. Well, I could go on, but the point is that I
>think that the comparison is faulty, whatever the many defects of the Cuban
>economy.
>
>--jks
>
>
>Change of regimes is of world-historical
>>importance, however, when it effects the transition from one mode of
>>production to another. In this sense, Cuba has undergone more
>>world-historical change than the USA.
>>
>>>right, US has more income inequality, but the poorest are far better off
>>>than the "middle class" in Cuba.
>>
>>By "middle class" in Cuba, you mean doctors, artists, engineers,
>>university professors, and the like? Socialism in any nation, _while
>>the rest of the world economy remains capitalist_, probably makes its
>>intellectuals worse off than its counterparts, and perhaps even makes
>>them worse off than some of the poor, in imperial nations, as you
>>argue. However, Cuba would _never_ have produced so many doctors,
>>artists, engineers, university professors, etc. from peasant or
>>working-class family backgrounds to begin with, _but for the
>>socialist revolution_. So your comparison appears to me to be moot.
>>
>>Yoshie
>>
>
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