This thread of 11/24 was chock full of contradictions-- but we all may be able to climb thru this muddle to learn a few things about history and the power of philosophy/ideology gripping the masses in motion. first, on the question of religion serving class /partisan ideology and material interests-- . Should not the issue of Muenzer and his peasant forces in revolt be put in some kind of historical perspective? In the 16th century liberatory and class movements came up against the feudal order dressed in religious ideological-politica l garb. It could not be other wise religion and fuedalism still predominated, even the rising burghers, merchants, and their princely allies developed their ideology to the mass under the guise of religious Protestantism as the against the Catholic church, a bastion of the feudalist mode of production. Though Luther led the Protestants , he still opposed the mass struggles of the oppressd/exploited on the bottom. Muenzer and his gallant comrades were actors in history pre-dating the scientific or rationalist epoch, the 'enlightenment' era. . But he was no opportunist since this movement was bound to be cloaked in religious ideology , a new 'religion' promoting a kind of utopian peasant primitive communism . The movement used the "sword of god" (Muenzer) to build a 'kingdom of god on earth", in other words maybe the toppling of the ruling classes and THEIR clerical church religious allies as a kind of 'millenial day of judgement'. This approach sees that ' It is not the consciousness of man that determines his existence but his social existence which determines his/her consciousness' , to paraphrase K. Marx! But today, in the modern epoch to build the masses struggle on religious- populist ideology and platform is quite backward , and opportunistic , since the rise of science, rationalism ,industry , and the working class under the wages system of exploitation have created the material social potential to supercede religious obscurantism. To again learn the lesson of what Engels' meant when he stated in the pamphlet on "Historical Materialism' that what political movements and programmes progressive in a previous histroical epoch can then become reactionary in a later historical epoch. such has been the track record of all religious mysticism , even so-called 'liberation theology' to be sure. Neil
