----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Lemisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Pugliese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L:13969] Jesse Lemisch
> Thanks for sending this to me. It's amazing in its inability to come to
> terms with a serious argument. I'm not on the list this was apparently
> posted on, and don't know whether I care to reply -- but if I did, I'd
> appreciate knowing how I would do so. Or, it would be nice if somebody
> posted my article, which is available at www.wpunj.edu/newpol
>
> Jesse
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Pugliese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 3:11 PM
> Subject: Fw: [PEN-L:13969] Jesse Lemisch
>
>
> > I'm sure you've seen Lou "intervene" at the NY Marxist School or the
> > Brecht Forum!
> > Michael Pugliese
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Louis Proyect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 11:59 AM
> > Subject: [PEN-L:13969] Jesse Lemisch
> >
> >
> > > >Jesse Lemisch
> > > >
> > > >[from New Politics, vol. 8, no. 3 (new series), whole no. 31, Summer
> > 2001]
> > > >
> > > >... I SUPPORTED RALPH NADER FOR PRESIDENT IN 2000. Nonetheless, I
> > > >think that in some ways Nader and the Greens offer a bad model for
> > > >the future of independent politics....Here is my criticism, first in
> > > >summary: Nader and the Greens abstemiously turned their backs on
> > > >people's reasonable and deeply human longings for abundance, joy,
> > > >cornucopia, variety and mobility,
> > >
> > > Abundance, joy, corncupia, variety and mobility? I think that's what
> most
> > > NY'ers like Lemisch enjoy right now, while their taxes go to pay for a
> CIA
> > > and military that denies it to the rest of the world.
> > >
> > > > What, after all, is
> > > >the matter with food in abundance, and wonderful material goods?
> > > >Might globalization, under popular control, be a good thing, or is it
> > > >intrinsically and inevitably bad? Might large-scale agriculture,
> > > >under different conditions, be a good thing?
> > >
> > > This is not what Marx argued in v.3 of Capital, but Lemisch's
> connections
> > > to Marxism seems tangential at best.
> > >
> > > >How can it be that in
> > > >2000 Nader still believed in the family farm as what he
> > > >anachronistically called "the cultural backbone of America"? Why do
> > > >we hear so much about such archaic notions as "self-reliance"?
> > >
> > > Because people feel appalled by the kind of cancer epidemics
industrial
> > > farming produces?
> > >
> > > > Are
> > > >TV, Viagra, Prozac and tourism necessarily, as Nader thinks, bad
> > > >things? What about cars? Even if we were to deal successfully with
> > > >pollution, I just don't think that Greens would accept, much less
> > > >delight in, the utopian potential of the easy mobility given to us by
> > > >cars....
> > >
> > > Don't forget fox-hunting. You haven't lived until you ride across the
> bog
> > > on a foggy morning in your red suit, blowing your horn.
> > >
> > > >...Do demographic and other data support Green notions of scarcity,
> > > >or does the Green mystique of scarcity precede investigation of the
> > > >realities? Are Green ideas of "sustainability" sometimes rooted in
> > > >apparent givens that turn out in fact to be political choices?
> > >
> > > There are only so many blue-finned tuna in the ocean. With fishing
boats
> > > made from converted sonar-equipped WWII sub hunters, they will rapidly
> > > disappear. This has nothing to do with Malthus, but common sense.
> > >
> > > >>So it's not clear whether the real limits of what the earth can
> > > >produce cause the ascetic complex, or whether the ideology comes
> > > >first, a priori, focusing attention on the limits rather than the
> > > >possibilities. What ever became of the notion of planning -- figuring
> > > >out how to accomplish social goals, especially with newer
> > > >technologies?...
> > >
> > > Right new technologies. Let's clone blue-fin tuna.
> > >
> > >
> > > Louis Proyect
> > > Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org
> > >
> >
>
