Chris Burford writes: >Torture was especially used in Europe from the middle
ages at the time of the rising bourgeois state. It is interesting that it is
becoming a credible need at a time of turbulence in the creation of the
international Empire.<

I'm not sure that this historical analogy works. I'd be that torture was
pretty "normal" before the rise of the bourgeois state; feudal lords were
not expecially admirable in terms of their allegiance to human rights. If
that's true, what's important is the _decline_ of torture. I'd say that in
Englad, it was the rise of the urban working class as an organized force. In
the USA, it reflects the power of the small farmers -- whose influence was
reflected in our Bill of Rights -- and later the urban working class. Of
course, if someone knows the history better than I do, I bow to their
expertise.

In the US, as suggested by the "torture chic" article which I sent to pen-l
awhile back, the rise of suggestions that torture is "okay" come from (1)
the wave of jingoism; (2) the frustration of many with the lack of
information received from terrorist-related suspects; and (3) the lack of
political power of the targets. I suspect that the story is similar in the
UK.

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