Interesting conversation. a few things: the idea that money has value because it can buy things is subject to the problem of infinite regress (I'm reminded of trying to figure out how god could exist in 2nd grade and saying "well what if a god created god? then who created that god?). Why do people sell output in state money? because other people sell output in state money? That's silly. it completely ignores the web of debts people have. Enclosures was a form of primitive accumulation but not THE form of primitive accumulation. In Africa for example primitive accumulation was accomplished in through colonial taxation (see Samir Amin's unequal development for a non Neo-Chartalist account). In the colonial and post-colonial American west (now Pittsburgh and the surrounding area) taxation was one of a few ways of generating a foreclosure crisis which produced a wage labor force working on their former land. People start using a new unit of account when a large portion of the population is obligated to acquire the new currency through some form of public tithes or taxation.
Re:empirical work and SNLT: I'm of the opinion that energy and biophysical resource analysis is easier to do empirically and avoids endless stupid arguments over value theory. It's much easier to show an energy surplus being generated then convince people surplus value is a valid concept and get them to understand what forms surplus value takes. It's not perfect obviously (you need to figure out ways of integrating raw materials, human knowledge and human skill in well), but I personally see it as a fruitful avenue. -- -Nathan Tankus -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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