Jim Devine __


I don't think that it. The Phillips Curve is about _money_ wages (W)
going up when unemployment is down.  (Money wages are what's printed
on your paycheck.) This is not quite the workers' dream, since when
money wages go up, the capitalists usually raise prices (P). High
demand giveth high money wages to workers but then taketh way by
raising prices. Thus real wages (W/P) may stay the same, fall, or
rise. (Real wages are what goods and services your wages are able to
buy.)

^^^^
CB: One thing I know is that you understand the Phillips Curve better than I
do. Please, I am only repeating what was in that wikipedia note, which might
be inaccurate ( well, you thinking about it from a different angle :>)) It
seems to explicitly refer to wages. I got that from them and if it is wrong
ok.

They said:
"The New Zealand economist Bill Phillips, in his 1958 paper "The
relationship between unemployment and the rate of change of _money
wages_(emphasis added -CB) in the UK 1861-1957" published in Economica,
observed an inverse relationship between_money wage_ changes and
unemployment in the British economy over the period
examined."

On capitalists raising prices when wages go up, that is what Citizen Weston
was arguing and Marx was replying to in _Value,Price and Profit_. Prices
need not go up, if profits go down ( Marx said with a revolutionary grin on
his face, no doubt)

^^^^^


(There's a related concept called the "wage curve" (Blanchflower and
Oswald). In line with Marx, rising unemployment implies falling real
wages, and vice-versa, all else constant. However, it doesn't work
very well at the macroeconomic level.)

^^^^^
CB: Hmmmm sounds like we need to bring back Phillips Curve, Blanchflower and
Oswald with some adjustments for the current period.

^^^^^^

Also, the Phillips Curve causation doesn't go as you suggest. It's not that
high wages mean high demand meaning low unemployment.  It's much more a
matter of high demand for goods and services (GDP) causing a high demand for
labor (low unemployment) causing faster growth of money wages (and prices).
(Some see high inflation as causing low unemployment, reversing this
causation. In the end, the PC is more of an empirical generalization than a
theory.)

^^^^
CB: On the prices, price control without wage control. I know that's
radical, but I was trying to state it most radically - workers' dream. I
guess it was sort of the Keynesian backdoor route to socialism. Amazing that
with Samuelson, it was the prevailing "empirical" position in bourgeois
economics. I agree that it is an empirical observation,not a theory. But for
policy purposes , what works empirically works, regardless of why. Again,
I'm just reading this encyclopedia item. What do you think of the following
that they say ?


"Similar patterns were found in other countries and in 1960 Paul
Samuelson and Robert Solow took Phillips' work and made explicit the link
between inflation and unemployment-when inflation was high, unemployment was
low, and vice-versa. As seen to the right, when drawn on a graph with the
inflation rate on the vertical axis and the unemployment rate on the
horizontal axis, the relationship between the variables showed a downward
sloping curve, the Phillips curve (PC).


In the years following his 1958 paper, many economists in the advanced
industrial countries believed that Phillips' results showed that there was a
permanently stable relationship between inflation and unemployment. One
implication of this for government policy was that governments could control
unemployment and inflation within a Keynesian policy. They could tolerate a
reasonably high rate of inflation as this would lead to lower unemployment -
there would be a trade-off between inflation and unemployment. For example,
monetary policy and/or fiscal policy (i.e., deficit spending) could be used
to stimulate the economy, raising gross domestic product and lowering the
unemployment rate, as shown by the change marked A in the diagram. Moving
along the Phillips curve, this would lead to a higher inflation rate, the
cost of enjoying lower unemployment rates.

To a large extent, a leftward movement along the PC describes the path of
the U.S. economy during the 1960s, though this move was not a matter of
deciding to achieve low unemployment as much as an unplanned side-effect of
the Vietnam war. In other countries, the economic boom was more the result
of conscious policies

^^^^^^



Friedman was opposes to the PC because he didn't like the idea of the
government choosing a low unemployment rate, balancing the benefits of this
situaiton against the costs (inflation).

^^^
CB: Why am I not surprised ? Inflation is bad for the creditor class because
a component of it is higher wages, but also, inflation erodes profiting from
interest. Like Ford said "WIN !"

But Friedman counts low unemployment as bad for his class too, doesn't he ?
Tight labor market causes, well, wages to rise, because there aren't as many
unemployed competing for jobs, no ?

For Friedman, high inflation ( especially wage raises) and high employment
are bad. He probably really doesn't have such a problem with the empirical
correlation, as that in that historical context it led to policy of trying
to lower unemployment and raise wages and effective income of the working
class including welfare. He wants policies to make low wages and high
unemployment.

^^^^^^


 Instead, he wanted the
gummint out of the economy (except to preserve property, profits,
etc.) In his view, the unemployment rate was determined by Nature (the
"Natural" rate of unemployment). If the gummint messes with Mother Nature,
there's Hell to pay in his view.

^^^^
CB: I'm thinking Friedman was a necessary fake step away from gummit
intervention, as Reagan was a fake step away in practice. They faked the
idea that gummit had to get out of fiscal intervention to end the
Keynesian/New Deal policies of backdooring to socialism. Then they brought
the gummit back in to operate on the Phillips Curve in reverse. But ,
anyway, Friedman was always for gummit monetary intervention , wasn't he ?
Monetary intervention is Natural , isn't ? The only thing unatural is
intervention to lower unemployment.

^^^^^^

Jim: The natural rate of unemployment is in some ways similar to Marx's idea
of the reserve army of the unemployed. Marx saw capitalism as requiring some
minimum amount of unemployment to prosper (though Kalecki pointed out that
this wasn't necessary under fascism;

^^^^^
CB: Did fascism prosper ? Fascism kind of blew up before it could prosper.

^^^^^

some argue that social democracy can lower this, too). For Friedman,
capitalism is natural, so it's Nature that requires a minimum amount
of unemployment.

CB: But monetary stuff is not necessarily natural, so its ok for the gummit
to adjust the money supply, m-1, m-2, m-3...?
Here's the wiki not on NAIRU


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_curve
The Phillips curve, NAIRU and rational expectations

New theories, such as rational expectations and the NAIRU (non-accelerating
inflation rate of unemployment) arose to explain how stagflation could
occur. The latter theory - also known as the theory of the "natural" rate of
unemployment - distinguished between the short-term Phillips curve and the
long-term one. The short-term PC looked like a normal PC but shifted in the
long run as expectations changed (see diagram above). In the long run, only
a single rate of unemployment (the NAIRU or "natural" rate) was consistent
with a stable inflation rate. The long-run PC was thus vertical, so there
was no trade-off between inflation and unemployment.

In the diagram, the long-run Phillips curve is the vertical red line. The
NAIRU theory says that if the unemployment rate stays below this line, as
after change A, inflationary expectations will rise. This will shift the
short-run Phillips curve upward, as indicated by the arrow labelled B. This
would make the trade-off between unemployment and inflation worse. That is,
there would be more inflation at each unemployment rate than before. Thus,
by pointing to the problem of endogenously-caused "inflationary
acceleration" the theory explained stagflation.

The name "NAIRU" arises because with actual unemployment below it, inflation
accelerates, while with unemployment above it, inflation decelerates. With
the actual rate equal to it, inflation is stable, neither accelerating nor
decelerating.

The rational expectations theory said that expectations of inflation were
equal to what actually happened, with some minor and temporary errors. This
in turn suggested that the short-run period was so short that it was
non-existent: any effort to reduce unemployment below the NAIRU, for
example, would immediately cause inflationary expectations to rise and thus
imply that the policy would fail. Unemployment would never deviate from the
NAIRU except due to random and transitory mistakes in developing
expectations about future inflation rates. In this perspective, any
deviation of the actual unemployment rate from the NAIRU was an illusion.

However, in the 1990s in the U.S., it became increasingly clear that the
NAIRU did not have a unique equilibrium and could change in unpredictable
ways. In the late 1990s, the actual unemployment rate fell below 4 % of the
labor force, much lower than almost all estimates of the NAIRU. But
inflation stayed very moderate rather than accelerating. So, just as the
Phillips curve had become a subject of debate, so did the NAIRU.

Further, the concept of rational expectations had become subject to much
doubt when it became clear that the main assumption of models based on it
was that there exists a single (unique) equilibrium in the economy that is
set ahead of time, determined independent of demand conditions. The
experience of the 1990s suggests that this assumption cannot be sustained







> Higher workers' wages doesn't necessarily mean higher prices, if profits
are
> cut. .... Profits would be cut through  price controls ( without wage
controls)

in the US, price controls have always been associated with wage
controls, with emphasis on the latter. If profits are cut, the
capitalists would go ape-shit.

^^^^
CB; I get this. This "control prices/don't control wages" is a bit tongue in
cheek. I think it is part of the ultimate stages of the Keynesian model of
reaching socialism by "euthanizing the rentier" and the like. The
capitalists would have to be asleep to let us put in policies to raise
wages, lower unemployment, and keep prices and profits down, like Marx
suggests in _Value, Price and Profits_. As I say, Marx had to have a big
revolutionary grin on his face when he said that.

However, evidently the capitalists were somewhat asleep in the early sixties
, with the mainstream economics consensus being based on Phillips Curve
empirical talk. Friedman is the bossses counterrevolutionary leader.

To its credit, PC etc seems to suggest a peaceful economic route to
socialism, like voting it in. It is radical reform.


^^^^^^

> "Into the 1970s however, many countries experienced high levels of both>
inflation and unemployment also known as stagflation."
>> Was this inflation higher wages or mainly higher prices ( or both ?).
U.S.
> wages weren't going up  at the time President Ford was handing out "Whip>
Inflation Now" buttons were they ?

in the early 1970s (and again in the later part of the Ford
administration), money wages rose more than prices. But during most of the
1970s, prices rose more than money wages.

^^^^
CB: It would seem from the standpoint of the ruling class, that this was a
mission accomplished.  Their interest in "flation" is inflating prices and
deflating wages, including the effect of the relationship between the rate
of change of the two on each other.


^^^^^^^

> Phillips curve
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I  wrote a lot of the Wikipedia text.

^^^^^
CB: Yea,I thought I remembered you saying that. So, above is you talking to
yourself ?  :>) You seem to be having a dialectic with your wikipedia note,
if the part I quote is from you.

^^^^^


 Since then, I decided that it
wasn't worth it (because people come along and rewrite, sometimes
messing things up totally).

^^^

CB: That's terrible .

^^^^


Because of this, instead of rewriting the
entry on the "labor theory of value," for example, I'm going to write
a primer on the subject and simply put a link to it in Wikipedia so
that interested readers can look at it.


^^^^
CB: I think you should stick in there and fight for the wikipedia note
location. Maybe we could organize a group to "patrol" the site.


--
Jim Devine / "There can be no real individual freedom in the presence
of economic insecurity." -- Chester Bowles

Reply via email to