I have already explained how I see things, and nothing you've said
changed my mind. The only thing you've said that I think is reasonable
is that the site should have graceful degradation when JavaScript is
enabled. *THAT* I am willing to do. I just updated the front page to
degrade gracefully when JS is disabled.

But as for how the website works by default, this is what I think:

(1) I think I have already compromised more than enough. At some point
I have to draw the line and get *some* of the stuff I want too. You
can't please everybody and at some point the guy who does the work
should get the final say.

(2) I don't think that just going in and removing the animation you
don't like constitutes a contribution. I was thinking more along the
lines of you spending a few weeks working on the website.

(3)  I think that the slideshow is good, I think it does a good job at
drawing attention to the *news* about the 2.4.7 release, or relevant
tips about PDL. I think that this has a lot of value, and yes,
whenever you try to draw the user's attention to something that you
think is important, that by definition, is a type of "distraction",
and that doesn't make it bad.

In any case, I hope that you will be satisfied with the last change.
As I said earlier, the only thing you've said that I think is a valid
point is that a website should degrade gracefully in the absence of JS
unless it is truly infeasible to meet the website's basic function
without JS (e.g. some ajax apps).  I have implemented graceful
degradation.

Daniel.

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> On Thursday 19 August 2010 16:50:04 Daniel Carrera wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote:
>> > Thanks for the the new site, it looks nice. It appears the JavaScript
>> > animation at the top is gone, but now there's an annoying animation at
>> > the box where "2.4.7 is out!", even without hovering the cursor above
>> > it.
>>
>> The box animation is not new. It has been there for months and it has
>> already been slowed down. No, it does not consume any meaningful CPU,
>> and I cannot imagine how it can affect people with sight problems (I
>> pay attention to accessibility).
>>
>
> It can for some people - not all. See:
>
> * http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg03610.html
>
> * http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg03751.html
>
> Furthermore, all people find animations distracting, and it traps the eye and
> prevents concentration on different parts of the page.
>
>> I have already compromised a lot and moved the website many steps in
>> the direction you want. At some point you have to compromise too and
>> accept that other people have a different opinion that also has merit.
>> Otherwise we get into the absurd situation where the website gradually
>> moves more and more toward what one person, or a specific group wants,
>> ignoring other opinions, because at every step we "compromise" between
>> wherever the website is, and where this person or group want it to be.
>> Something like this:
>>
>> * Initially the website has JS on the banner and the slide show.
>> * Someone says he wants zero JavaScript.
>
> I didn't say I want zero JavaScript. I said I don't want any JS animations, at
> least not those that I have not initiated *and* have an option to cancel.
>
>> * We compromise to significantly slow the transitions.
>> * We make an unrelated update to the website.
>> * Same person says that he wants zero JavaScript.
>> * We "compromise" again to removing JavaScript from the banner.
>> * We make an unrelated update to the website.
>> * same person says that he wants zero JavaScript.
>> * We "compromise" again to something else.
>>
>> And so on and so forth.
>>
>> This is not fairness. Especially when the person who complains is not
>> active in updating the website. At some point the zero-JS camp has to
>> compromise too and understand that other people do like having some JS
>> on the website and that they should get some of what they want too.
>
> Well, I'll take the challenge and I'm going to try to improve the PDL site
> from its sources to get rid of the animation and make sure it looks fine with
> JS disabled.
>
> I've also learned how to configure NoScript to blacklist specific sub-domains,
> and have disabled all JS on pdl.perl.org (and not the rest of *.perl.org whose
> JS I want because it's not intrusive.). Now the front page looks completely
> off (try it without JS) but at least my eye is not distracted by the movement.
>
> Regards,
>
>        Shlomi Fish
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> Funny Anti-Terrorism Story - http://shlom.in/enemy
>
> God considered inflicting XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but then
> decided against it because he thought it would be too evil.
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>



-- 
Intolerant people should be shot.

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