Ok, ok, points taken. Disregard my suggestion for rank. :-)

But I agree that shape is good, so this would be a proper use of the
term(s):

"A 3x5 piddle is a two-dimensional piddle with shape [3,5]."

David

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Louis Chaillet <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sorry to jump in, I was reading your discussion.
>
> I will vote for shape.
>
> Order and rank have other meanings in linear mathematics
> that may confuse some readers.
>
> Rank (or sometimes essential rank) is also used
> to denote the number of independent vectors in a matrix. In a 2D pdl
> (matrix) this
> can never exceed the smallest dimension. That means a 2D pdl 2 rows by 3
> columns
> can not have a rank higher than 2.
>
> As for order. Order is used as proposed here, but also in matrix
> decomposition.
> For example the order of a singular (i.e. non invertable) matrix is zero
> no matter
> how many rows and columns it has.
>
> Hope it helps. Louis
>
>
>
> --
> Please note my email adres has changed to [email protected]
>
>
> Citeren Bryan Jurish <[email protected]>**:
>
>  On 2012-01-05 14:36, David Mertens wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, rank. Come to think of it, though, I was thinking "rank" would be a
>>> good word in place of "number of dimensions," as in a rank-two piddle,
>>> rather than a two-dimensional piddle.
>>>
>>> The issue arises with describing data. For example, a point in three
>>> dimensional space is described by a one dimensional piddle with three
>>> elements. As you can see, the word "dimension" is used in two ways, one
>>> to describe the extent of space, the other to describe the shape of the
>>> piddle. Using the word "rank," we would say that a point in three
>>> dimensional space is described by a rank-one piddle with three elements.
>>>
>>> A potential revised lexicon, then, would be this:
>>>
>>> dims -> shape
>>> ndims -> rank
>>>
>>
>> ... I find this use of "rank" confusing, since "rank" (and "order" and
>> "degree") seems to me more like words for what we've been calling the
>> _size_ of a given dimension (e.g. Rank_i($p) == $p->dim($i)).  IIRC, the
>> usual theoretical term for the number of components of a vector space
>> (i.e. the "3" in "3-D space") is in fact "dimension" (e.g. Dimension($p)
>> == $p->ndims), but that's pretty much in direct contradiction with the
>> usual use of "dimension" in the PDL docs, where it refers to (the
>> projection of) an individual component of the vector space.  Compare
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Rank_%28linear_algebra%29<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank_%28linear_algebra%29>and
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Dimension_%28linear_algebra%29<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension_%28linear_algebra%29>
>>
>>  In order of specificity, we would talk about a...
>>> 3x5 piddle,
>>> rank-two piddle
>>> piddle
>>>
>>
>> I would prefer the current "2-D piddle" to "rank-two piddle", for the
>> abovementioned reasons.  I agree it would be nice to have a noun for
>> this property, so we could assert things about "all piddles of $THINGY
>>
>>> = 2" instead of "all N-D piddles with N >= 2" or "all (N>=2)-D
>>>
>> piddles", which are both a bit kludgy.  Maybe "dimension-rank" ?  Or
>> maybe it's possible to distinguish between "the Dimension of a piddle"
>> (ndims) and "the i^th dimension of a piddle" (dim($i)) ... although
>> that's cutting it pretty fine...
>>
>>  One final, very deep annoyance that I have is with the term "thread." It
>>> should be "autoloop." But that should wait until after 2.4.10 at the
>>> very least.
>>>
>>
>> I agree, "thread" is misleading.  Although it doesn't bother me much
>> (anymore), I would also vote to replace it with "autoloop" at some
>> unspecified point in the future.
>>
>> marmosets,
>>        Bryan
>>
>>  On Jan 5, 2012 4:48 AM, "Matthew Kenworthy"
>>> <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:kenworthy@strw.**leidenuniv.nl<[email protected]>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    The "shape" proposal is an *excellent* idea - it gets my vote!
>>>
>>>    On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Craig DeForest
>>>    <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected].**edu<[email protected]>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>        Hrm.  As long as we're on terminology, how do you describe a PDL
>>>        with dim list [3,5]?
>>>
>>>        We've/I've been calling it a 2-D PDL with dim sizes 3 and 5 (as
>>>        in "dim 0 has size 3, and dim 1 has size 5"), or alternatively a
>>>        3x5-PDL.  Its first row would be called a 3-PDL or a 1-D PDL
>>>        with size 3.
>>>
>>>
>>>    My preference is "3x5 PDL" as "2d 3x5 PDL" is a bit redundant.
>>>
>>>    I'd say no to "3-PDL" - I'd prefer "1-D PDL with size 3".
>>>
>>>    "A PDL with shape 3 by 5" sounds good to me!
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bryan Jurish                           "There is *always* one more bug."
>> [email protected]         -Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology
>>
>>
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