/"Sounds like they have put you on a fixed speed 2M service ? Your router should show the link speed to the exchange via its web GUI if you can't find it http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php may help. "
/As you can see, the data rate shown by the router is pretty slow. ADSL State Show Time Data Path Fast Operation Mode G.dmt Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 2272 / 288 SNR Margin Down/Up(dB) 24.5 / 24.0 Attenuation Down/Up(dB) 26.0 / 12.5 Power Down/Up(dBm) 9.5 / 12.5 CRC Down/Up 205 / 4218 FEC Down/Up 0 / 0 HEC Down/Up 298 / 1068 System Up Time 333:55:03 DSL Up Time 333:54:26 PVC Select PVC-0 / "The current dispute resolution procedure would be 1) Escalate within Talk Talk until you get satisfaction or not 2) If no good then refer to their arbitration service (ADR) which is OTELO http://www.otelo.org.uk/ (ask T-T how to do this to put more pressure on). " /This is exactly what I've done. A registered letter went to TalkTalk earlier this week. / "your grounds for termination may be shaky as there isn't an SLA and the current speed falls within the acceptable range. If you're on a BT based service use the speedchecker at speedtester.bt.com and post its results here - note this won't work if you're on LLU with T-T's own kit. " /The original survey report from TalkTalk gave an estimated downstream data rate of 6Mb. I would have thought that this, along with the complete failure of their customer support service, would constitute grounds for breach of contract. / "Also ceasing the service will involve a fee and downtime in getting a new provider. I have had some success with getting T-T issues fixed via the forums at http://www.talktalkmembers.com/ as your customer details are used to sign up and their reps can dig around and see what's happening. "/ I've tried that. I signed up to use the forums, but every time I log in I get a message saying that I am either trying to access areas which I am unauthorised to use, or the forum admin has not yet activated my account. I sent the site admin a message a couple of days ago, asking him what the problem is, but guess what? He hasn't replied. Is it any wonder that I'm getting paranoid? [email protected] wrote: > Send Peterboro mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/peterboro > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peterboro digest..." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: TalkTalk (but no action) (Phil Thompson) > 2. Broken Ubuntu 9.10 upgrade (Dave Sones) > 3. TalkTalk broadband problem (Dave Sones) > 4. Re: Broken Ubuntu 9.10 upgrade (Mark Rogers) > 5. Re: TalkTalk broadband problem (Mark Rogers) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [Peterboro] TalkTalk (but no action) > From: > Phil Thompson <[email protected]> > Date: > Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:27:05 +0000 > To: > Peterborough LUG - No commercial posts <[email protected]> > > To: > Peterborough LUG - No commercial posts <[email protected]> > > > On 18/12/2009 Dave Sones wrote: >> So what I'm wondering is if anyone has experienced similar problems >> with TalkTalk (or any other ISP) and knows if it's possible to >> terminate a contract in these circumstances. > > I had to migrate a customer away from Talk Talk in order to get their > broadband fixed. Charles Dunstone got a letter from a fesisty old lady > (who knows where he lives) and she was refunded a modest amount of money. > > Sounds like they have put you on a fixed speed 2M service ? Your > router should show the link speed to the exchange via its web GUI if > you can't find it http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php may help. > > The current dispute resolution procedure would be > 1) Escalate within Talk Talk until you get satisfaction or not > 2) If no good then refer to their arbitration service (ADR) which is > OTELO http://www.otelo.org.uk/ (ask T-T how to do this to put more > pressure on). > > your grounds for termination may be shaky as there isn't an SLA and > the current speed falls within the acceptable range. If you're on a BT > based service use the speedchecker at speedtester.bt.com and post its > results here - note this won't work if you're on LLU with T-T's own kit. > > Also ceasing the service will involve a fee and downtime in getting a > new provider. > > I have had some success with getting T-T issues fixed via the forums > at http://www.talktalkmembers.com/ as your customer details are used > to sign up and their reps can dig around and see what's happening. > > > Phil > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > [Peterboro] Broken Ubuntu 9.10 upgrade > From: > Dave Sones <[email protected]> > Date: > Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:43:40 +0000 > To: > [email protected] > > To: > [email protected] > > > Hi Al, > > I have to confess that I didn't document what happened and what steps > I tried in any detail. I needed the system back working quickly, so > once I realised that it was seriously broken I ran a PartImage restore > to get me up and running again. > > I did try a few passive checks on the Ubuntu forums and found quite a > lot of people struggling with failed upgrades. However, at the time > there were very few answers available - apart from, 'do a clean > install'. There are quite a lot of serious Ubuntu experts out there > that would never dream of trying an upgrade. They ALWAYS do fresh > installations and claim it's the only way to get a trouble free > migration to a new version. I have to say that I agree with them. A > clean install is quicker, more reliable and less likely to leave any > nasty surprises lurking in the basement. > > Dave > >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:28:19PM +0000, Dave Sones wrote: >> >>> My only serious problem occurred when I tried (for the first time >>> ever) to do an on-line upgrade from 9.04, rather than a clean >>> install. It was a disaster. It took hours to complete and once done, >>> the system wouldn't even boot correctly. I tried to fix it, but in >>> the end gave up and just did a clean install, which worked >>> perfectly. PartImage, which I highly recommend (on the >>> SystemRescueCD - www.sysresccd.org/Download) got me out of trouble >>> initially, by restoring my original 9.04 set-up. >>> >>> >>> > I'm very interested to know exactly what happened in between:- >> "the system wouldn't even boot correctly" >> >> and >> >> "gave up and just did a clean install" >> >> Because I see a _lot_ of people complaining that the upgrade breaks, >> and they then do a clean install, but I never get to hear what steps >> they took to _attempt_ to fix it inbetween those two things happening. >> >> Did you attempt to fix it alone? >> What kinds of things did you try to do to fix it (if you can recall)? >> What support networks did you try? >> * Google? >> * Ubuntu Forurms (http://ubuntuforums.org/ >> * IRC (#ubuntu / #ubuntu-uk) >> * Launchpad Answers (http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu) >> * LUG ? >> Of those that you tried, did you use them passively (search for an >> answer) or actively (post the problem and request help)? >> >> All the best, >> Al. >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > [Peterboro] TalkTalk broadband problem > From: > Dave Sones <[email protected]> > Date: > Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:21:44 +0000 > To: > [email protected] > > To: > [email protected] > > > Hi Mike, > > Thanks for the info about AAISP. I took a look at their site. They > seem to be a fairly serious outfit, but with services mainly aimed at > the commercial end of the market, so I'm not sure if they could offer > me what I'm after. However, I'll give them a call and see what they say. > > For the past four years, I've used a bundled phone/line > rental/broadband package from Pipex, which was pretty good, as was the > support service. TalkTalk convinced me that since they now own Pipex, > there was no point in continuing to pay the higher monthly cost when > they could provide the same service at a more attractive price. > Especially since they intend to migrate all Pipex customers anyway. > > To be fair to the TalkTalk offer, it is very good value. However, that > comment only holds good if the promised services are delivered. I'm > sure they have a lot of very happy customers, but the real test of any > company is how it behaves when things go wrong. If the support service > is badly organised then any problems will just be amplified, rather > than sorted out and turned into good PR. > > TalkTalk's support suffers from a number of serious flaws: > > * They assume that anyone contacting them with a problem is a > complete technical moron > * They assume that anyone contacting them is a Windows user > * The front-line support staff have no technical knowledge, nor the > ability (or authority) to recognise a situation which needs > instant transfer to second-level tech support > * The whole support system appears to have no consistent joined-up > view of ongoing customer complaints (you have to start from > scratch each time you call) > * When a commitment is made to sort something out, no-one follows it > up to ensure a proper resolution > * And the worst crime of all - they make promises that they don't keep > > I used to work for one of the biggest international component > distribution companies in Europe. It's whole business strength was > based on high service levels, whether that was stock availability, > delivery times, or customer support. Part of my job was running all of > the technical support services. They only had two priorities to work > to: Answer the phone within 15 seconds and take personal charge of > providing the customer with a solution. Sometimes that took two > minutes, sometimes it took two days, but it always got done. In most > businesses, that sort of ethos is gone now. The only calls that get > answered within 15 seconds are those to the sales lines. Businesses > have lost the understanding that what makes a long-lasting > relationship is not how slick your sales talk is, but how well you > treat the customer after he's signed up. It's an old maxim, but it's > still very true that the best advert for your business is often the > customer who came to you with a complaint - and got a fast > satisfactory solution. TalkTalk don't understand that, they just run > the numbers and play the percentages. > > Dave > > > > Subject: > Re: [Peterboro] TalkTalk (but no action) > From: > Mike Whitaker <[email protected]> > Date: > Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:48:13 +0000 > > To: > Peterborough LUG - No commercial posts <[email protected]> > > > You could try a chat with Andrews and Arnold (AAISP,net) who are > prepared to take on lines with faults and get 'em fixed (they > understand more than BT have forgotten about ADSL) and may be able to > advise you on the state of your contract/service with Talk Talk vis a > via fitness for purpose etc. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [Peterboro] Broken Ubuntu 9.10 upgrade > From: > Mark Rogers <[email protected]> > Date: > Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:10:29 +0000 > To: > [email protected] > > To: > [email protected] > > > On 18/12/09 22:43, Dave Sones wrote: >> There are quite a lot of serious Ubuntu experts out there that >> would never dream of trying an upgrade. They ALWAYS do fresh >> installations and claim it's the only way to get a trouble free >> migration to a new version. > > It's true that building an install routine that works with all > hardware out there is impossible to get 100% right, and that making it > work with every configuration of existing software is a significant > level of impossibility higher. So a fresh install will always be more > reliable simply because it's much easier to get right. > > That said, my desktop at home was installed with Ubuntu 5.10 and has > been upgraded release-by-release (and usually to a pre-release about a > month before release), and has been largely trouble-free > (occassionally I've had a failure to start the graphical interface but > its always been fairly easy to fix with a little experience or forum > support) and over the past couple of releases I've had no problems at > all (if that's not asking for 10.04 to go wrong I don't know what is!) > > My work desktop was installed with Ubuntu around 7.04 when Windows > decided I didn't need the contents of my hard disk any more and > corrupted everything, and that's been upgraded release-by-release > (about a week after each release) and I've had no problems with that > one either. > > I also have a number of server installs which have been upgraded over > several releases (although not to 9.10 yet), generally smoothly. > > So I'm a little torn if anyone asks me for advice on this one. A fresh > install is much easier to predict and therefore much more easy to get > right, but my experience of upgrades is that of having few problems. > > If it helps, I install very little that isn't in a repository (so > nothing from source or non-deb binary installs), but I do not restrict > myself to Ubuntu repos. > > As a comparison, I have attempted Windows version upgrades in the past > (nothing since around Win2k) and they've always caused more problems > than they're worth, so I had little expectation from the Linux > equivalent and have been pleasantly surprised. I'd be interested to > know what more recent Windows upgrade procedures have been like > (comparing 2009 Linux technology with Pre-2000 Windows technology > isn't fair), although here probably isn't the best place to get an > unbiased response! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [Peterboro] TalkTalk broadband problem > From: > Mark Rogers <[email protected]> > Date: > Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:21:21 +0000 > To: > [email protected] > > To: > [email protected] > > > On 18/12/09 23:21, Dave Sones wrote: >> the real test of any >> company is how it behaves when things go wrong. >> > > On the other hand, it's a perfectly legitimate business model to get > as many customers as possible on a miniscule margin, and let the ones > with problems flounder until they leave. As long as your systems work, > the vast majority of customers will be happy and problem free and if > enough of them are making you £1/month you can make a decent income. > Once you let the few with problems eat into that margin the business > model falls apart. > > Companies like A&A (and there are plenty of others out there) charge > more for the service so can provide decent support, and that's another > perfectly valid business model, not least because effectively you have > TT and other big boys out there recruiting for you. And there are > smaller companies in the middle (mine is one of them) who offer > broadband with other support services so the business model is > different again (although I'll say for experience that we're very much > dependent on our upstream providers to deliver decent support to us > when there is a problem). > > I think the best model might be to be completely open about the > margins on a service like TT's, and offer decent support on a > chargeable basis when needed. You get your broadband at a very low > price, but if you're unlucky enough to have problems you understand > that there isn't the money to provide support except if you pay at the > point of use. And I'm not talking about £1/min phone lines, I'm > talking about something like £100/incident but backed up with the kind > of support that Dave described - someone takes ownership of the fault > and gets it resolved. Since you could be saving £10/month by using the > cheaper provider, £100 to sort a problem isn't too hard to justify. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Peterboro mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/peterboro _______________________________________________ Peterboro mailing list [email protected] https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/peterboro
